RoverJames Banned
#31

HellsAngel said:
Contradicting yourself a bit there Rover ? Ok I'm posting this from a male perspective but like I stated in another discussion, TMA's such as Karate, TKD etc can give a guy the tools to defend yourself against Mr Average in striking. ( If it goes to the ground, your even as he knows little about ground grappling as Mr TMA does. Sorry but it's the truth )


How am I contradicting myself ? I reckon a black belt in karate is not great but I would highly rate the higher grades. Also earlier when I mentioned about someone naturally handy not being bothered by a black belt in karate I was referring to folk with a black belt who were not otherwise handy or aggressive. About my own experience, not much really, 2 years kick boxing which I have already said I was not good at, a weekend or two at krav maga. I would be quite street wise and have only been in one physical altercation in my near 30 years of city dwelling.

Chris89 Registered User
#32

NG-DOC said:
I presume you mean a female Aikoka who is fully committed could defeat a male who wasn't trained in in "aikido match" or whatever the term is?

If you are suggesting that a female trained in aikido would beat an untrained man of similar size in a real life street fight/organized full contact fight. I'm afraid i'm definitely going to have to call you out on that one.


This + 1000.

I'm notsure if aikido has a competitive element. To be honest any footage ive seen is of 10-15 seemingly compliant martial artists, running aimlessly at some old guy and letting him flip them over.

Fights (not talking about fight sports, but cringe at people saying street fight) are won and lost by either a huge haymaker or a load of lads jumping in. Unfortunately, the Jackie chane esque scenes that most of you seem to expect, are a load of bollocks and would never happen in the real world.

Katie taylor would beat my ass up. Some girl with sick wrestling would beat me up, same for Thai and kickboxing. But not aikido or similar. No way.

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cowzerp Registered User
#33

Your average muppet on the street who would windmill till he gassed out would beat the snot out of most Black belt women, In saying that the women in theory should be able to beat females who are the aggressors, the likes of Katie Taylor handles males of a very good standard in Boxing and would not go in the category im writing about here and would bust most lads faces into mush quite quickly, then the victim would prob get beaten again by males who would step in to give the women beater another going over for been a creep.

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Craptacular Registered User
#34

cowzerp said:
Your average muppet on the street who would windmill till he gassed out would beat the snot out of most Black belt women.

Presumably if BB women can't beat average muppets then BB men will have similar problems with muppets that are bigger than them? So martial arts are a waste of time (except boxing because Katie Taylor is a girl and she could beat average muppets)?

cowzerp Registered User
#35

Craptacular said:
Presumably if BB women can't beat average muppets then BB men will have similar problems with muppets that are bigger than them? So martial arts are a waste of time (except boxing because Katie Taylor is a girl and she could beat average muppets)?


Martial arts? depends which 1, lots would struggle in a real fight-mainly the non competitive pressure tested ones, So Thai would be ok, Boxing, BJJ, Sanshou-i'm not going to name everything that actually fights with some reality involved!!

Craptacular Registered User
#36

But female BBs in those martial arts would be destroyed by an average muppet? And, since we're not being sexist, presumably male BBs in those arts would get the snot kicked out of them by a muppet bigger than them who windmills until he gasses out?

Chris89 Registered User
#37

To continue my post about the female aikido bb. The same would be the case for a male as far as I'm concerned.

There is martial arts. And there is fighting.

I may not hold an aikido blackbelt. But I reckon I could knock someone out or end a fight quickeR than they could. Whether they were male or female. and I'm
not even that good at boxing.

And to craptacular (ironic), I don't know if you are trying to play devils advocate. But your last post attemps to poke at cowzers argument without presenting one of it's own. Everyone can ask loaded questions. Weak.

My uncle has his own kenpo karate school. I may not agree with a lot of the techniques they use, but I know fr sure that he would kick the **** out of me. Not by utilising the dragon claw. But by decking me too hard in the nut.

There's a huge difference in my opinion, with sparring at te end of your aikido class. And an actual fight. Huge. Massive. Gargantuan.

Jayo_M Registered User
#38

Chris89 said:
There's a huge difference in my opinion, with sparring at te end of your aikido class. And an actual fight. Huge. Massive. Gargantuan.


The same could be said about amateur boxing and BJJ, no?

Craptacular Registered User
#39

Chris89 said:
I don't know if you are trying to play devils advocate. But your last post attemps to poke at cowzers argument without presenting one of it's own. Everyone can ask loaded questions. Weak.


Well pardon me. I didn't realise I'd broken the Rules of the Internet.

My point is simple. It's sexist garbage to claim that a female BB would be beaten by an average muppet but not extend that to male BBs and if we extend it to male BBs then martial arts are a waste of time. Otherwise we'll just have to forget the sexism and open minds to the possibility that there are female BBs out there who could hand out a beating to an average muppet if the situation arose.

Chris89 Registered User
#40

Jayo_M said:
The same could be said about amateur boxing and BJJ, no?


About bjj yeah, cause when we roll/spar there's no striking so it's not a fight. I can't remember the last time I saw an armbar outside coppers. Same way you wouldn't see anyone catching a real punch and making one of those flips like I see aikidos do on YouTube.

But surely amateur boxing is pretty close to a streetfight? A good boxer, male or female or even shemale would wreck me, or most lads who don't box r similar.

Chris89 Registered User
#41

Craptacular said:
Well pardon me. I didn't realise I'd broken the Rules of the Internet.

My point is simple. It's sexist garbage to claim that a female BB would be beaten by an average muppet but not extend that to male BBs and if we extend it to male BBs then martial arts are a waste of time. Otherwise we'll just have to forget the sexism and open minds to the possibility that there are female BBs out there who could hand out a beating to an average muppet if the situation arose.


Men are stronger than women. Fact

some martial arts are rubbish in a real fight. My opinion.

I'm not sexist.

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Corcioch Registered User
#42

sxt said:
The girl in question was taekwondo but she said it didn't matter...I am probably wrong here but can't you get a black belt without ever sparring/ fighting? or being strong? Is it all about learning off moves?



You can get a black belt in Tae Kwon Do without even being able to effectively kick above your waist.

I practiced TKD for several years before moving on . . .to Judo . . .and while TKD is a very enjoyable sport if you compete . . .and is an enjoyable exercise for man and women . . . . it is not taught anymore in my experience as a martial art, it nothing like Krav or BJJ or Judo etc . .

I would go so far as to say its an enjoyable sport but thats about it imo.

But like many have said here, its not so much the art as mostly the artist that makes the difference. . . .but its not 100% the artist either to be fair, the art and what is learned, taught and practiced does make some difference, ill illustrate what I mean with an example.

Take 2 good strong agressive individuals, fairly equal . . . .send one off to train at TKD, be it ITF or WTF . . .send the other off to Mauy Thai . . . . .after a year or two of hard training I know who my money would be on . . . .the one with the tough shins!!!!!!! lol


And all belts are good for is holding your trousers up . . . . . B Lee.

Craptacular Registered User
#43

Chris89 said:
Men are stronger than women. Fact

some martial arts are rubbish in a real fight. My opinion.

I'm not sexist.

Yes, most men are stronger than most women but we're discussing black belts against average muppets. Assume for a second it's a black belt in one of the arts that are not, in your opinion, rubbish in a real fight. Since you brought up strength are you now suggesting that training is useless if the untrained opponent is stronger?

NG-DOC Registered User
#44

Craptacular said:
Yes, most men are stronger than most women but we're discussing black belts against average muppets. Assume for a second it's a black belt in one of the arts that are not, in your opinion, rubbish in a real fight. Since you brought up strength are you now suggesting that training is useless if the untrained opponent is stronger?


I can't speak for chris, but clearly if you take an average well built 90kg man who is strong, versus experienced tae kwon do black belt who is 60kg and frail, it's pretty obvious who's going to get crushed. So in my opinion yes training is useless to some extent depending on the size of the person.

This argument for the most part has turned ridiculous because there is so many variables to a fight it's ridiculous. oh what if he's big and has a hat, oh what if the woman is strong but the man has big hands, what if the man gets kicked in the nuts but it doesn't really hurt and the woman has a black belt in karate. We could do this all day.

My opinion is, the majority of men, black belt or not, will more than likely be able to beat up any woman, black belt or not, if they really wanted to.

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Chris89 Registered User
#45

NG-DOC said:
I can't speak for chris, but clearly if you take an average well built 90kg man who is strong, versus experienced tae kwon do black belt who is 60kg and frail, it's pretty obvious who's going to get crushed. So in my opinion yes training is useless to some extent depending on the size of the person.

This argument for the most part has turned ridiculous because there is so many variables to a fight it's ridiculous. oh what if he's big and has a hat, oh what if the woman is strong but the man has big hands, what if the man gets kicked in the nuts but it doesn't really hurt and the woman has a black belt in karate. We could do this all day.

My opinion is, the majority of men, black belt or not, will more than likely be able to beat up any woman, black belt or not, if they really wanted to.


speak for me all you want, that's pretty much how I feel.

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