nowecant Registered User
#1

Hi there

First time creating a new Thread on Boards but I cant seem to fined one on the new DIT Campus they are putting into Grangegorman. As this is only a planed facility which has yet to go to tender (I think) I believe its best placed here rather than the Education Forum

A couple of interesting Links for those who might be interested

http://www.grangegormandevelopmentagency.ie/ - some good initial plans and a nice video of the proposed campus.

http://www.dit.ie/about/grangegorman/ Badly designed websites but has some ok information

http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-news/article/2009/aug/02/grangegorman-residents-call-for-15bn-dit-campus-pl/ Article from the Tribune stating that locals want the new campus development to go ahead despite recommendations that it be cut An Bord Snip Nua

If anyone has any other interesting links or thoughts on this please post them here and lets get a discussion going about what will arguably be one of the most important developments in the Educational Infrastructure in Dublin.

irishguy Registered User
#2

Is this still going ahead? Have they said how they are going to fund it?

Pete_Cavan Registered User
#3

irishguy said:
Is this still going ahead? Have they said how they are going to fund it?


It was planned that a lot of the funding would come from the sale of the colleges campus' around the city but of course the original budget was based on property prices during the boom. These campus' are no longer and never again will be worth what they were valued at during the boom so its hard to see where they will get the money from now.

nowecant Registered User
#4

Hi there


The Irish Times reported as of April 30th was that this should still go ahead. There was an article about it in the Irish Times which anyone with a subscription can take a look at here (and possibly post the contents onto this page) http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/commercialproperty/2008/0430/1209420603609.html The DIT Student newsletters also suggest that its still going ahead and regularly give progress updates.

I’m currently studying in DIT and was very surprised to learn that there are in fact 39 separate locations around the city housing DIT facilities. It appears that some of the much smaller locations like the ones near Bolton St but not in the main building are all counted as part of the larger campuses. I can only imagine that it must cost DIT a fortune to run all of these with porters, cleaning and the provision of even basic facilities.

A single large campus would also benefit the students hugely in terms of facilities; currently I have to go to 3 separate libraries for some of my books. Access to lectures would also be immeasurably improved not to mention ease of timetabling.

I’m very interested to see what others think of the style of architecture being proposed for the new campus? While it is not to my taste I can see that it probably in line with other modern campuses around the world.

I suppose my biggest problem is that they appear to be using all of the available space, while I understand it is much more costly to build upwards and is harder to get planning permission leaving some additional space would make it easier to expand in future.

The new campus I presume would also have a major impact on the University Rankings http://www.topuniversities.com/university/165/dublin-institute-of-technology DIT has made good progress on this particular website (I know there are other ranking systems) though it did slow between 2008 - 2009)

2006 = 370
2007 = 351
2008 = 328
2009 = 326

I also understand that there are plans for Broadstone Bus Garage to be a kind of Phase 2 of the development. This seems to be hinted at in some of the plans on the GDA (Grangegorman Development Agency) Website where you can see the old train station seems to be integrated with the new campus. I also seem to remember something in the paper a while back (12 months or so) about the minister of transport rejecting CIE plans to reinstate this as a train station saying that the Luis would be using all available track facilities on the way out to Broombridge. Does anyone have any more info on this?

nowecant Registered User
#5

Also

If they could source the funding not only would they get it built much cheaper and faster now but it would also provide thousands of jobs

nowecant Registered User
#6

irishguy said:
Is this still going ahead? Have they said how they are going to fund it?


I would suggest borrowing, I heard figures of about 1 - 1.5 Billion to complete the work though Im not certain about this. While this is a lot of money I still believe it is worth it. DIT is currently the countries biggest educational institution with circa 23,500 students, the majority working in vastly substandard conditions compared to other colleges.

#7

nowecant said:
I would suggest borrowing, I heard figures of about 1 - 1.5 Billion to complete the work though Im not certain about this. While this is a lot of money I still believe it is worth it. DIT is currently the countries biggest educational institution with circa 23,500 students, the majority working in vastly substandard conditions compared to other colleges.


+1

Very true, plus it would be great having another ultra modern purpose built campus like DCU but better! The plans look great!

Arbutus Registered User
#8

The Grangegorman project is still on course to go ahead, in fact it is hoped that a Government decision will be made over the next two weeks to allow the Grangegorman Development Agency to proceed with Consultation on their draft strategic plan. The project also includes a health element. The current psychiatric hospital must be vacated before work starts on the new DIT facilities. Enabling works for a new 66 bed state of the art facility will begin in August.

markpb Registered User
#9

The Board Snip nua report recommended cancelling this project:

Given the current uncertainty in relation to this project, the Group proposes to discontinue all current funding (€1.5m) for the agency. This measure could also avoid further capital expenditure on the planned €1.5bn capital development Programme associated with Grangegorman. The Group further recommends that the State dispose of land associated with this project to generate revenue for the Exchequer and that the option be explored of consolidating DIT on alternative lands, e.g. at Tallaght Institute of Technology as suggested at D.2.3 above.


Of course it's still up to the government to decide what to do. I can't see it happening in the short term. Selling vast quantities of the city centre in a slow market won't raise the money they expected, probably won't cover the costs of constructing the new campus and would further depress the market (which I can't imagine they're keen to do).

If they can't cover the costs from sales, they'll have to borrow the money on the market and since Moody downgraded us this morning, it will cost even more than before.

irishguy Registered User
#10

It would be good for it to go ahead, but the government cant afford to borrow 1.5Billion so I cant see this going ahead for another 10 years.

nowecant Registered User
#11

I really don’t like the idea of consolidating the campuses of DIT, IT Tallaght and Blanchardstown IT on the 15 Acre site out in Tallaght as I believe was also suggested in the report. I just think that would be a huge step back for DIT, which has made massive gains in recent years. There might however be some merit to making ITT and ITB part of the DIT college in order to streamline programs etc... and to lesson overhead running costs. Ill also admit as a Student of DIT that I would have been less likely to choose the college if it was out in Tallaght and I would suggest many more would be the same. For students living outside the city center most travel links are towards the city center and would mean that a huge amount would have to take 2 or more modes of transport to get to college.

I am also wondering about the price tag of 1.5 Billion. While I have no idea what a college campus like this should cost it just seams very cheap considering what the plans entail. Is there anyone here who would have a better idea about this?

If it was 1.5 Billion isn’t that less than what we are borrowing every two weeks at the moment? And if so i would consider it a good investment considering the jobs created and the possibilities of big savings in the running of the college.

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nowecant Registered User
#12

Arbutus said:
The Grangegorman project is still on course to go ahead, in fact it is hoped that a Government decision will be made over the next two weeks to allow the Grangegorman Development Agency to proceed with Consultation on their draft strategic plan. The project also includes a health element. The current psychiatric hospital must be vacated before work starts on the new DIT facilities. Enabling works for a new 66 bed state of the art facility will begin in August.


That is good news, ill try and keep an eye out for the decision. From my reading in the press including the DIT Student news and a conversation I had a while back with one of the members of a community project in Stonybatter it seams like most local people are pro the development. 23 thousand students and staff will all have to eat and sleep somewhere so it could be the big injection the north inner city needs to reinvent itself.

Arbutus Registered User
#13

The price tag on the Grangegorman project is not €1.5 billion. Current estimates have set out that in order to replace DIT's core facilities in Grangegorman the overall cost will be in the region of €496 million. Of this it is expected that around two thirds will come from a variety of DIT sources including but not exclusively the sale of property. The rest will come from Government grants ranging over 7-8 years.
As well as a major drop in property prices there has also been a major drop in the cost of construction generally. This must be factored into the cost projections for Grangegorman. Also within the cost plans the possibility of property markets not recovering very quickly has been considerd and the different packages and phases can be planned accordingly.

PaulieBoy Registered User
#14

Fingers crossed that the whole stupid plan is dropped !
I spent four years in Bolton St, three thus far in Kevin St, think it's great that you can go to college in the city center and not some huge soulless dump in some outer part of Dublin.
Invest the money in upgrading what is already there.

1 person has thanked this post
FreudianSlippers Registered User
#15

PaulieBoy said:
Fingers crossed that the whole stupid plan is dropped !
I spent four years in Bolton St, three thus far in Kevin St, think it's great that you can go to college in the city center and not some huge soulless dump in some outer part of Dublin.
Invest the money in upgrading what is already there.

Grangegorman isn't exactly in "some outer part of Dublin" - it's like a 5 minute walk from Bolton St.

5 people have thanked this post

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