FRIENDO Registered User

Thanks Tony,
At the moment I have a zone 1 satellite for Freesat, so I can fit a new satellite for Saorsat.

watty Registered User


The Satellites are 22,500 miles above the equator.

A perforated Sky dish is no good for Ka.
Zone 1 is too small for Ireland, except maybe Waterford.

Satellite Internet is not a replacement for UPC, phone line Broadband or Metro
. It has minimum latency of about 790ms. It's instead of unreliable 3G Mobile, VSAT (satellite two way) is only when real Broadband is not available. It uses a special dish/feed arrangement. Not a Triax dish and multifeed bar.

If you Don't have Tooway Internet, just satellite TV:

Sky/Freesat - - - Astra 19 -- Hotbird 13 - 9E
All are Ku Quattro. The 9E needs swapped for a Ka-LNBF. A Ka-LNBF is smaller internally but can be in standard mount. (Ka is approx 1/2" waveguide instead of approx 3/4" waveguide of Ku)
The 90/95cm Dish is aligned on 16E and Triax Multifeed bar is re-drilled about 1/3 distance to allow 28E further out.

The LNBs feed a EMP-Centauri 16+1 in 16 out multiswitch. Ka will only need one feed to one Multiswitch input as all signals are same band and polarisation. Two of the remaining inputs of those four could be L & R or H &V of C-Band.

No, the bush is not in the way, nor these trees (yet)

(The motorised dish is 110cm Triax using Motek SG2100, many years ago from Tony,

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The Cush Registered User

A regular Triax feed bar and regular 80cm solid dish for 28E and 9E,
I understand the above for Freesat and Saorsat.
In relation to internet will this mean I can recieve Internet through 9E without a phone line coming into the house.

Ka-Sat will primarily provide a two-way broadband service over Europe with an appropriate dish/LNB and satellite modem without a phone line.

Eircom are offering such a service (but its not cheap) -
Discussion here -

A satellite broadband provider could also bundle the Saorsat service as part of a satellite broadband package.

This from Conor Hayes last July
Mr. Conor Hayes: No. DTT will not be able to provide broadband per se. We always argued with the commercial operators, such as the One Vision consortium, which included Eircom, that DTT allowed a triple play option. For example, the operator could go to my mother in Mitchelstown and provide her with telephone and broadband via landline, stick in a DTT box for television services and provide triple play on the one bill. This would have allowed commercial operators to compete with the satellite operators or UPC in Dublin.

Our satellite option would operate on the Ka band as opposed to the Ka band. The Ka band is typically used for telecommunications purposes or contributions between broadcasters. The Ka band is used by the single largest pay television operator in the US, DirecTV, which uses it to deliver high definition television. It works on a consumer basis and is a proven product in weather conditions.

People are offering satellite services over broadband. If one has a broadband service over satellite, one is capable of offering telephony or voice over IP, VoIP. If we are up there in the clear, some bright spark might offer people broadband, telephony and Irish channels - RTE, TG4, TV3 and so on - without their needing to spend much money.

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watty Registered User

However while so-called Satellite "Broadband" is much better than so-called Mobile "Broadband" on reliability, jitter, packet loss, always on, speed and controlled contention if a decent package, neither are Broadband (Satellite Latency too high for games/real time and awkward for VOIP/Skype), especially not Mobile. Mobile has the value of being Mobile.
Different kinds of Internet Access:
(Imagine WiMax is almost unique being really a Mobile system, but disadvantaged by wrong band for Mobile and no National Licence, so some situations worse than 3G mobile and others better).

Why even 21Mbps Mobile can be worse than 1Mbps DSL (phone line):
Mobile is best (only solution) when you need Internet on the go.
Satellite (VSAT) is best when there is no other broadband available. A better subsitute than Mobile and very like Broadband if you don't need VOIP/Skype or Gaming/Poker or eBay sniping.

Ka-Sat is primarily designed for European, Middle East and North Africa Interent Use, with 1000x capacity of earlier VSAT systems. Largest capacity ever. It just happens to be launching at the "right time" for Irish Digital Television with a few things to make it cheapest ever platform for Irish FTA satellite TV.

  • About x10 to x20 inherently lower cost per Mbps of bandwidth (Price will not be so low
  • Irish dedicated spot, 80+ spots with polarisation/band reuse further limits coverage (solves rights issues, makes it cheap)
  • No Ku, so no demand for existing @9E TV platform makes it cheaper
  • A spot is all one polarity & Band making single LNB output distribution possible.
  • Prices aimed at competing with cheaper European Broadband, so TV carriage cheap.
  • Uses DVB-S2, so less MHz needed per Mbps of data
  • "Virtual Transponders", so can "create" two transponders with copy of terrestrial Mux MPEG-TS, allows for cheap DTT site backup and Community DTT, hotel and Apartment feeds converting via ASI from DVB-S2 to DVB-T with inexpensive off the shelf gear.
  • Allows very small boxed "dish" that doesn't look like a dish, for existing Sky or Freesat users, beating the "one dish rule"
  • Will actually work to edge of North East N.I., but essentially not in mainland UK at all (once French Spot ar Channel is active, before it is, large dish on UK West coast will work.)

If it's successful, a similar opportunity may not exist for another 4 to 5 years.

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channelsurfer2 Registered User

ok still a bit confused with the ka and ku etc having read all the posts...especially the disqeq switch thing and the point about the humax box being able to use it..will i still need someone to put another dish up or extra lnb on the sky dish to get saorsat? anychance of an FAQ thing for people like me who have some knowledge but are not familiar with the ins and outs?

watty Registered User


Already extensively discussed.

A Sky dish can't even be used for a 2nd Ku LNB sensibly and can't really ever be used for Ka-Band. Just like many C-band dishes are not suitable for Ku-Band.

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watty said:
There is no prize, but can you name all the EU countries and overseas territories that are NOT in Europe Geographically?
Again no prize but does anyone know which country has the southernmost point ?

watty said:
Iceland may apply to join EU and is only place in Europe growing bananas. Ireland is a real banana republic, having at one stage been the biggest exporter in the world
Actually we were the biggest manufacturers of bananas.

dowtchaboy said:
Most of these are military bases. The most interesting one is probably Diego Garcia where they shamefully just shifted the inhabitants out and leased the place to the US Airforce.
Most shameful thing from an Irish perspective about Diego is that Eircom used to have a Band 13 solely for there. Which makes no sense since the US military has their own comms and everyone else had been ejected from the island, The code was used for extortionate scam calls of which eircom got a very nice slice.

FRIENDO Registered User

If a satellite broadband service provider could bundle the Saorsat service as part of a satellite broadband package it would be good.

I have no telephone line as Eircom would have to plant a number of new poles to reach my house, mobile broadband is slow in my location

Saorsat/broadband could be a reasonably priced solution

Tony Registered User

what does any of this have to do with the thread topic?

Capt' said:
Again no prize but does anyone know which country has the southernmost point ?

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Johnmb Registered User

I have no telephone line as Eircom would have to plant a number of new poles to reach my house, mobile broadband is slow in my location

Surely that's Eircom's problem, not yours. They are the universal carrier, the extra money it would cost them to get you on the network is more than offset by the the fact that they can charge the same amount to people who live next to the exchange and it costs very little to hook up.

Stinicker Banned

Does anybody here have any idea about Ka-Sat LNBs? I wonder would a DirecTV Ka-Sat LNB from the United States work or are they on a propriety system? I have a 1 metre motorised dish and can pick up 9° East no problem on the KU Band. I have relatives that might be coming from the US for Christmas and I could get them to bring it (if it would work) saving me both shipping and VAT costs, as internal US shipping is less than $10. I'd like to begin receiving any KA tests or trials from day one with the plan to buy the Saorsat dish and receiver box later on whenever it hits the highstreet.

watty Registered User

No, DirecTV uses circular polarisations. 100% not suitable.

You can use an LNB off a Tooway (US Wildblue, Tooway in Europe). It needs a little horn. I'll be publicising a solution before the time. Nothing to receive till April anyway.

End December Launch
Transfer orbit
Clarke Belt positioning ( Jan)
System testing (Feb/March)
Operational (April)

RTE don't get to put signals till the satellite is operational.

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Apogee Registered User
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Apogee Registered User

19th November 2010 afternoon local time, was the Baikonur Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan, delivered by a European telecommunications satellite KA-SAT in preparation for the delivery of the Proton carrier rocket.

Ka-Sat satellite was constructed by EADS Astrium on the basis of an order of French satellite operator Eutelsat Communications. The contract for delivery of the Ka-Sat satellite was signed with a Russian-American company International Launch Services (ILS).

KA-SAT will be launched in December 2010. It's already the eighth mission Proton rocket this year.

Ka-Sat will be more than 80 transponders with many links and it will be the latest satellite in the world. The satellite will serve to develop two-way Internet Tooway.

The new satellite will be parked at the orbital position 9 ° E (originally planned at 13 ° E). The satellite was taken on the Eurostar E3000 platform. This is the 17th satellite, Eutelsat is manufactured with EADS Astrium.

The life expectancy is 15 years.

Russian-English web-translation.

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Apogee Registered User

ILS Ka-Sat blog is up and running.

KA-SAT Campaign Begins!

Posted by ILS Launch Team, 4:20 p.m. EDT on 19 November 2010

Welcome to the KA-SAT launch campaign blog. Let’s do it!

We are in full swing here in Baikonur after saying goodbye to the SkyTerra 1 team and welcoming the KA-SAT main team on Wednesday. The weather has been mild thus far, with fog greeting us in the morning only to burn off by the afternoon, so we have beautiful sunsets and night skies full of stars.

There has been a flurry of activity since the early team arrival on 11 November. Between managing the overlap with the SkyTerra 1 team and getting the KA-SAT campaign off the ground, we’ve definitely hit the ground running. Especially our Program Integrator, since it is her first time in Baikonur, there are lots of new stuff to learn.

Khrunichev gave us a tour of Hall 111 to see the KA-SAT launch vehicle, and Dr. Bronfman, director of programs at Khrunichev, provided us with many good stories about the history of the Proton during the tour. On Thursday, we were able to see the launch vehicle before it went to testing. It’s quite a sight to see it in a horizontal position because of its massive size.

The good news today is that the spacecraft arrived! It was a chilly, windy day out at the airfield, so strong that it could have knocked you over. It’s been a long day, and it’s not over yet. We’ll have the fitcheck either tomorrow or Sunday. These long days keep us busy.

We’ve taken a break from BBQs, but we’ll have a big Thanksgiving celebration, complete with turkey and all the fixings. :-)

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