Double Barrel Registered User
#16

Rowa
Wright is one of many unsung "outworkers" for the lads with connections and fancy addresses.
Douglas Tate who is a gunsmith wrote a very interesting book on the Brummie gun trade: Birmingham Gun Makers: A Complete Overview of the Birmingham Gun Trade and its History as Well as a Listing of Birmingham Gun Makers. I think it is out of print but check the library. Or :http://www.amazon.co.uk/Birmingham-Gunmakers-Douglas-Tate/dp/toc/1571570551

It wasn't me! Moderator
#17

rowa said:
does anyone know anything about gunmaker george hinton of taunton ? i recently bought a boxlock by him , one of a pair .


You buy that off Neil McVeigh by any chance? If so, I was very tempted by that gun myself.

finnmccool37 Registered User
#18

I'm curious - do you still own this gun? I have an opportunity to purchase one here in the States and I was looking for any information I can on this manufacturer. I am especially interested in when they changed over to smokeless production and when the serial numbers started.

Thanks.

Double Barrel Registered User
#19

Finn,
Smokeless shotgun cartridges 1890's onward.
Serial#
John Twigg, 1755, not sure of serialisation.
Durs Egg, 1772
Joseph Manton 1781.
John Dickson 1812, J Purdey, 1814, John Rigby 1822, C Lancaster, 1826 ......
To the best of my limited knowledge they all used serial No.'s and kept record books.... except maybe Twigg.

Zenner Registered User
#20

Double Barrel said:
No proof house in Ireland, the Birmingham gun quarter & London had proof houses.
It was a common practice for a gunmaker to source actions, locks barrels etc. and do the fit, finish and stocking in house. They all did it to some degree except maybe Boss.

The Gun Trade

It should be understood by any student of the gun trade, mid 19th century to mid 20th century, that the trade was not organized quite as the public thought.

With the exception of one or two of the most prestigious gun makers, guns were generally not 'made' by their vendors but by a host of small, highly skilled, anonymous gunmakers based principally in London and Birmingham. These largely unsung tradesmen could produce everything from a striker to a complete gun and supply the parts in any state from a rough forging to a fully finished gun complete with the vendors name and serial number. Furthermore, although some of the gun trade did specialize in a style or quality of gun, many could produce a product to any level of finish.

The secret behind this fantastic level of flexibility was that most individuals specialised in one skill or another, be it barrel work, actioning, stocking, engraving or whatever, and the gun passed from tradesman to tradesman having the various procedures undertaken by a whole series of experts.

The result was that virtually any gun in any bore, style and quality could be ordered within the trade. http://www.jblanchdatabase.co.uk/technical.htm




Hi, I was reading your posts and I am finding your discussions very interesting. Its great to see that there are people who care about history and quality of workmanship in the gun trade. I was reading along your posts to see that there was a discussion/question form one of the posts on proofing houses in Dublin. Well, I have some information that might be of interest. There was one back around in the 70’s. It was based in Glasnevin at then Institute of Industrial Research and Standards (IIRS) It was set up for the purpose of new gun that was to make its way to the market. The gun in question (not sure if I got the spelling right) was called a "Finnian" It was an O/U. Not sure if this will add to any of the information out there but it might be of interest to someone. I got this information from a gunsmith that was based in Webley & Scott and who has a long history in the trade here in Ireland.

2 people have thanked this post
Double Barrel Registered User
#21

Nice bit of information Zenner every bit helps.

"The Fenian by P.V. Kavanagh & Sons, 12 bore shotgun with unique self opening action."
Thanks to Mike Shepherd Guns:



W Kavanagh & Son designed a vertical barrelled (O/U) gun but they do not appear to have patented it, it is thought one or two were made for them by the Fenian Gun Co. One example bears the name P V Kavanagh & Sons

The Fenian Gun Company of Birr in Co. Offaly ceased trading in 1970. It was "purportedly owned by a British Agent " according to a debate that came up in the Irish Parliament (Dáil Éireann - Volume 269 - 21 November, 1973)
http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0269/D.0269.197311210031.html

harmoniums Registered User
#22

Double Barrel said:
Nice bit of information Zenner every bit helps.

"The Fenian by P.V. Kavanagh & Sons, 12 bore shotgun with unique self opening action."
Thanks to Mike Shepherd Guns:



W Kavanagh & Son designed a vertical barrelled (O/U) gun but they do not appear to have patented it, it is thought one or two were made for them by the Fenian Gun Co. One example bears the name P V Kavanagh & Sons

The Fenian Gun Company of Birr in Co. Offaly ceased trading in 1970. It was "purportedly owned by a British Agent " according to a debate that came up in the Irish Parliament (Dáil Éireann - Volume 269 - 21 November, 1973)
http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0269/D.0269.197311210031.html


I've called Mick a few times about that shotgun to see if he could sell it to me.
Last I heard the cops still had all his firearms, even though he had a court order to have them returned

Zenner Registered User
#23

harmoniums said:
I've called Mick a few times about that shotgun to see if he could sell it to me.
Last I heard the cops still had all his firearms, even though he had a court order to have them returned



That’s great information to know and a good picture. I wonder if it has an Irish Proofing mark on it ? I did also hear the barrels came in from a foundry in Belgium and there was many left in the proofing house when things folded. I must look further into the rest of the story on this as its very interesting. Its strange that he has not got them back being he has an order in place. It would be a shame to see it just sitting in a safe. I know there are many more classic guns sitting in the park that should be released.

full throttle Registered User
#24

I have a Fenian 12 bore o/u the same as the one pictured... any queries???

FISMA Closed Account
#25

There's just something about a SxS with case coloring that makes me



Have you sussed out any locations for the museum?

Beautiful firearm!



Also, Harmoniums, do you collect any Irish Militaria? I have seen an ad for an Irish Free State Uniform for around $900. This price appears high as the uniform has been for sale for over a year since I first noticed. What does something like this go for?

Here's another Fenian for ya - Snider 1861!
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=244499911

full throttle said:
I have a Fenian 12 bore o/u the same as the one pictured... any queries???

Yes, where can they be gotten, how much, what's the population of these, and are they marked Fenian?

Grizzly 45 Registered User
#26



W Kavanagh & Son designed a vertical barrelled (O/U) gun but they do not appear to have patented it, it is thought one or two were made for them by the Fenian Gun Co. One example bears the name P V Kavanagh & Sons



Apprently quite a few were made and exported via the Uk[?] to Canada.
Also it has a design fault,the action bars are not properly heat treated and tend to bend after awhile.
Edit
Been asked where this info came from.
The UK Shooting Times mag runs a colum on 2nd hand guns that you might pick up.In 2010[cant remember which month] they had an article on the Fenian shotgun,and that point stuck in my mind of the article.

1 person has thanked this post
harmoniums Registered User
#27

FISMA said:


Yes, where can they be gotten, how much, what's the population of these, and are they marked Fenian?


I'm working on importing 2 right now, an 16 and 12 gauge

full throttle Registered User
#28

This is my Fenian o/u shotgun
[ATTACH]169533[/ATTACH]

this is the unique opening system
[ATTACH]169534[/ATTACH]


[ATTACH]169535[/ATTACH]


I MAY CONSIDER SELLING

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