#121

Fr0g said:
trapsagenius, I don't have strong affiliations with any party. In fact my opinion is that anyone who does is politically, economically and sociologically naive. Politicians are a cancer on society in my opinion. Those that start out with high ideals eventually succumb to the lure of power and money. Most get into politics only for the power and money. We do however have to work with what we've got.

A government that ends its term having done more good than harm is very rare in my experience on this island. My initial response in this thread was to dispel the fearmongering among FF supporters that the opposition in power was a frightening thought. I hope I have gone some way to allaying those fears.

There seems to be a concerted effort on this board and on p.ie from FF supporters to focus attention on the opposition because they are failing miserably to defend their own party. Particularly when headlines like these seem to be all too common.

nama-the truth - its a bailout for developers

Callely got €80,000 mileage from Cork


Shocking thing about Callaly is that he is only in the Oireachtas thanks to his Northside buddy Ahern. He lost out on election to the Dail, and then he failed to be elected to the Seanad. So Bertie puts him in anyway.

If this is true, it is another disgrace. However, that wont stop Mr Callely seeking our votes in 2012.

#122

scr123 said:
Its two years now since the economy began to collapse around our ankles. The property bubble burst as expected and the economy went in to recession as expected it would at some stage. At that moment what we didnt know was the extent of the problems at the banks.Two years of economic, political and social upheaval but it looks as if there is light at the end of the tunnel. There are people who want to smash that light but their political agenda is easily read and they will not succeed..
I want a change of government because its wrong to have a one party State, FF have gone stale and because FF have been at fault in too many areas. However, when I look to my left I see Labour and a concoction of extremists whose economic policies revolve around TAX AND SPEND. Look to my right and I see Fine Gael who have economic policies of NO TAX AND NO SPEND. Economically, politically and socially the Left and Right are so far apart the thoughts of them in government together is terrifying..
I have read and listened to all the attacks of FF and they are being repeated ad nauseum. Life is about words like balance, equilibrium, negotiation, compromise, hope, optimism, solutions, confidence and more. I see nothing coming from the Left or Right that will resolve the problems facing this country and under the circumstances I remain staunch FF


The last four words of this post demonstrate why this country IS and WILL CONTINUE TO BE absolutely f*cked as long as the FF party are allowed to participate in the Governing of this country. FF have practically bankrupted this nation and do not have the brain power to turn it around.

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scr123 Registered User
#123

Het-Field said:
1.
(a) Unsustainable wage agreements.
(b) Ramping up public expenditure by 10%+ per annum while keeping taxes low to hedge their bets with the lobbiests who seek to have low taxes or high spending.
(c)Claiming that we were living off current funds, which were in fact the unsustainable yields of the property bubble, which was stoked by Bertie Ahern and our current Taoiseach.
(d)Abolising our competitive edge by setting prohibitive minimum wages, rolling out broadband at a snail's pace, the prohibitive price of Land Rents, and failing to adequatly deal with PRSI payments.
(e)Using budget 2001/2002 as a pre-election sweetner, and then bowing to media pressure between 2004-2007 when the media began getting on their backs about being "miserly". Again, Bertie's "negotiation and balance" were not displayed as he bowed to pressure and handed out all sorts of goodies which no sensible economy should be doing
(f)Ignoring the factors of productivity to live off the fruits of the property bubble, which put us in great debt for years to come.
(G)Light touch banking regulation which was either a deliberate practive persued by the government to stoke the bubble, or it was downright stupidity on their part. Either way, it is not good.

"What would they have done".

They were not in government at the time. It is a red herring argument, which is used to propogate the myth that we would be as badly in the s**t today if they were in Government. The reality is we dont know how badly we would be in it, because they were not in government.

That is just some of what was done. You can talk about being terrified by the opposition, however, when there is no evidence to suggest that they would do any worse



Completely irrelevant.

These two words describe exactly what the electorate have thought of the Opposition in the last 6 elections. Obviously, its also clear the Opposition believe its completely irrelevant what the electorate think of what might have been and what will be in the future. As the days and weeks go by the chances of FF winning the next election are steadily increasing and the main reason of the shambles that represents itself as an alternative government

jmayo Registered User
#124

scr123 said:
Completely irrelevant.

These two words describe exactly what the electorate have thought of the Opposition in the last 6 elections. Obviously, its also clear the Opposition believe its completely irrelevant what the electorate think of what might have been and what will be in the future. As the days and weeks go by the chances of FF winning the next election are steadily increasing and the main reason of the shambles that represents itself as an alternative government


The more I read your posts the more I subscribe to what my father always said.
"the only ones that stayed in Ireland were the lucky already rich, the connected ones and the eejits, the rest were given the boat"

I am not quiet sure which group you belong to, but how anyone can say the opposition are a shambles and then proudly nay arrogantly state they will vote for what must surely be the most expensive shambles of a government that this state has ever had the misfortune to have been governed by, not to mention it includes the top levels from the previous pathetic regime, is truly mind boggling to me.

It appears that supporting ff is akin to believing in a religion, whose leadership will still be supported, even venerated, no matter what wrongs they perpetrate.

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#125

scr123 said:
Completely irrelevant.

These two words describe exactly what the electorate have thought of the Opposition in the last 6 elections. Obviously, its also clear the Opposition believe its completely irrelevant what the electorate think of what might have been and what will be in the future. As the days and weeks go by the chances of FF winning the next election are steadily increasing and the main reason of the shambles that represents itself as an alternative government


The paupacy of your response says it all. I have argued with HJordan about the fact that we are living in exceptional times, and exceptional circumstances. This means that the next election will not be fought on platitudes or auction politics. It will be about cuts and it will be about pain sharing. In 1987 FG announced that they were going to have to keep cutting and FF announced that nothing would be cut. Once Haughey and McSharry saw the books they thought otherwise, and fiscal rectitude was the order of the day. FG are allowed use that this time, but FF cannot. They have gone down the road of austerity, and cannot try and pull it back from the brink in the name of electioneering.

Second, you have not addressed the fact that a plethora of public sector workers, the 450,000 private sector employees (now unemployed), countless jobless graduates, and the elderley will not look at FG/Lab and rubbish them and return to FF. That happened in 2007, when FG/Lab didnt make the advancement that it needed to. In 2012 the hardships which have been placed on the people of Ireland by governmental incompetence will be remembered. This will ensure that people will turn away.

Equally, how they heck will FF redress the commanding lead of FG/Lab ? There is NO WAY that FF will get an overall majority, and the Greens wil be decimated. Equally, if FF lose the numbers that they are expected to lose there will not be enough gene pool FFers to prop them up. As such your assertions of a FF victory are spurious. The evidence points at FG/Lab.

I think you are the BIFFO style of FF who have such a blinding hatred of FG that you cannot see the wood from the trees, otherwise the evidence would have had you running a mile from remaining "staunchly FF"

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bamboozle Registered User
#126

Het-Field said:
Shocking thing about Callaly is that he is only in the Oireachtas thanks to his Northside buddy Ahern. He lost out on election to the Dail, and then he failed to be elected to the Seanad. So Bertie puts him in anyway.

If this is true, it is another disgrace. However, that wont stop Mr Callely seeking our votes in 2012.


sure he inflicted his son on us in the last local elections, Callelly's a leech this country does not need.
i wouldnt be suprised if Bertie promised to look after him if he resigned quietly as Junior Minister after being exposed for getting his house redecorated.

bamboozle Registered User
#127

anyone who could still even consider voting for the party that has destroyed the economy of this country for generations to come and lead to mass emigration of our youth needs to have their head examined.

i wont even go into the nepotism, cronyism, greed, inflated salaries etc etc that underpinned the country under FF.

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Fr0g Registered User
#128

bamboozle said:

i wouldnt be suprised if Bertie promised to look after him if he resigned quietly as Junior Minister after being exposed for getting his house redecorated.


Yes, thats how it works, "sure lay for a while, wait till it blows over and i'll see you right"

#129

scr123 said:
These two words describe exactly what the electorate have thought of the Opposition in the last 6 elections.


What "electorate" would that be ? The electorate that didn't give FG an overall majority, but didn't give one to FF for the last few elections either ?

scr123 said:
Obviously, its also clear the Opposition believe its completely irrelevant what the electorate think of what might have been and what will be in the future.


I thought I was getting used to you not making sense, but that sentence makes no sense whatsoever.

scr123 said:
As the days and weeks go by the chances of FF winning the next election are steadily increasing and the main reason of the shambles that represents itself as an alternative government


On what planet ?

People who are "staunchly" a party won't even bother to look at the facts and evaluate the best option, but there are thankfully enough people starting to see FF for what they are.

It might be too little too late, considering some of them voted FF in last time and helped land us in this mess, but at least it's some progress and can give us some hope for the future.

Sean Quagmire Registered User
#130

bamboozle said:
anyone who could still even consider voting for the party that has destroyed the economy of this country for generations to come and lead to mass emigration of our youth needs to have their head examined.

i wont even go into the nepotism, cronyism, greed, inflated salaries etc etc that underpinned the country under FF.



I completly agree with you, but who would you vote for if you dont mind me asking?

I despise FF for the complete shambles they have caused in this country, and it is their fault. But what alternatives do we have?

FG, Labour - The more time I spend listening to them the less faith I have in them. Its worrying when there are 4 or 5 parties to choose from and they are all as bad as each other.

bamboozle Registered User
#131

Sean Quagmire said:
I completly agree with you, but who would you vote for if you dont mind me asking?

I despise FF for the complete shambles they have caused in this country, and it is their fault. But what alternatives do we have?

FG, Labour - The more time I spend listening to them the less faith I have in them. Its worrying when there are 4 or 5 parties to choose from and they are all as bad as each other.


as far as i'm concered my local bridge club would do a better job than FF. If you look at the FF front bench there are 6 teachers there, i wont say former teachers as some of them have still got their teaching jobs kept on hold for them should they fail to get re-elected, and out of those 6 teachers we have none as minister for education.
if you look at FG & labour, Bruton is an oxford or cambridge educated economist, Reilly is a doctor, Burton is an accountant, Veradkar is a doctor, Shatter is a barrister there is plenty of ability there.
Enda Kenny may not be the ideal figure head for a FG/Labour coalition but i'd be pretty confident he is honest and a man of integrity which is more than i can say for any of the incumbents.

i'm lucky in my constituency in that we have 2 of the finest td's in the country representing us, Richard Bruton and Finian McGrath so they got my votes last time and i was delighted to see the epitomy of arrogance and pure unadultrated greed Ivor Callelly lose his seat to McGrath.

#132

scr123 said:
Completely irrelevant.

As the days and weeks go by the chances of FF winning the next election are steadily increasing and the main reason of the shambles that represents itself as an alternative government

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiIQdlTv6K4


And there is no other way to describe it

Can someone help me with this please it doesn't seem to be working thanks

#133

Sean Quagmire said:
I completly agree with you, but who would you vote for if you dont mind me asking?

I despise FF for the complete shambles they have caused in this country, and it is their fault. But what alternatives do we have?

FG, Labour - The more time I spend listening to them the less faith I have in them. Its worrying when there are 4 or 5 parties to choose from and they are all as bad as each other.


Missing a very important point that an alternative government even if only the same level of incompetent can take an axe to the quangos that have been created over the years by FF that have their "friends" appointed to their boards.

Quangos cost us about 20 billion a year and its going to be necessary to do this to get our deficit under control. FF will not take an axe to these bodies due to invested interests and party before people attitude toward running the country.

FF are cutting essential services before examining which of these quangos we actually need and what cost cutting we can do to each.

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Biggins Banned
#134

caseyann said:
Can someone help me with this please it doesn't seem to be working thanks


(Invalid youtube)

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#135

Personally I think the opposition are terrified of the prospect of a general election any time soon. They don't have the solutions at all, and would probably end up doing what FF are doing atm, so they are content to spout off rhetoric about restoring public sector cuts etc... But you can bet if the do come to power you will hear excuses for not doing so.


And just a note on Biggins signature there: I believe (open to correction) That Fáil is derived from 'Fál' which is a legendary name for Ireland. Just thought that would interest you!

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