Stinicker Banned
#16

Ryan T said:
That driver was a traveller of no fixed abode so they took what they could get as it would not be possible to track him later


I suppose any person could claim that. Surely they could run the licence plate or tax disc for to get an address, or can you register and tax a car as "No fixed abode".

Bond-007 said:
It is standard practice to levy a penalty of circa €500 if the offender has no previous convictions. If caught a second time it will mean court and the prospect of a €5000 fine.


Is it a criminal offence or classified as something minor like motor tax evasion? this country has a fairly stupid legal system and we should have misdemeanour's and felony's etc. to categorise each offence in terms of seriousness.

Ryan T Registered User
#17

I can only tell you what the revenue officer in charge said on the programme an that was that they would have no chance of tracing him

746watts Registered User
#18

Not worth doing, it's bad for your injectors anyway and you are likely to get an audit from the revenue boys (if you have a business linked to the car) on top of the fine etc.

I was dipped about every 6 weeks near Loughrea over a period of 8 months or so a few years ago (private car Passat I had). Pain in the arse but I had proper diesel in at all times.

Stinicker Banned
#19

746watts said:
Not worth doing, it's bad for your injectors anyway and you are likely to get an audit from the revenue boys (if you have a business linked to the car) on top of the fine etc.

I was dipped about every 6 weeks near Loughrea over a period of 8 months or so a few years ago (private car Passat I had). Pain in the arse but I had proper diesel in at all times.


Surely the dye itself could have no physical effect on the injectors, now if you were burning Kerosene (Paraffin) that would burn out the injectors in no time due to its less lubricating properties. I have heard stories of fellows with trucks and cars up around the border who prefer to just burn the green as that way they know it is not contaminated with all the dye removal schemes and cutting of Diesel with various chemicals.

My understanding is/was that burning Green Diesel in a car made no difference apart from the obvious legal and tax related issues.

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746watts Registered User
#20

Stinicker said:
Surely the dye itself could have no physical effect on the injectors, now if you were burning Kerosene (Paraffin) that would burn out the injectors in no time due to its less lubricating properties. I have heard stories of fellows with trucks and cars up around the border who prefer to just burn the green as that way they know it is not contaminated with all the dye removal schemes and cutting of Diesel with various chemicals.

My understanding is/was that burning Green Diesel in a car made no difference apart from the obvious legal and tax related issues.


Green diesel has a much higher sulphur content, the dye itself has no impact.

#21

Stinicker said:

Is it a criminal offence or classified as something minor like motor tax evasion? this country has a fairly stupid legal system and we should have misdemeanour's and felony's etc. to categorise each offence in terms of seriousness.

It is a serious criminal offence as far as the law is concerned.

The revenue are catching so many these days that by levying cash penalties they can keep the courts from getting clogged up. Court is typically reserved for serial offenders and those that refuse to pay the cash penalty.

Stinicker Banned
#22

746watts said:
Green diesel has a much higher sulphur content, the dye itself has no impact.


Which with todays Modern Engines will quickly throw the toys out of the pram! Never knew that cool! I guess Tractors are exempt from the Emissions regulations, and with most Farmers driving older type Corollas and Jeeps I guess it is only on the rare occasion that Green Diesel gets the opportunity to screw with a Modern TDIi!

#23

746watts said:
Green diesel has a much higher sulphur content, the dye itself has no impact.


Utter rubbish.

The dye (marker) is added post uplift, ie in Ireland. The base fuel is unmarked diesel.

Tractors are subject to EU emissions regs, their engines must comply with whatever reg is in place when they are manufactured.

It applies to all engines, including stationary engines such a gen sets, water pumps etc.

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L1011 Moderator
#24

746watts said:
Green diesel has a much higher sulphur content, the dye itself has no impact.


Not for a very long time it hasn't. Its road diesel + dye + a chemical marker thats much harder to scrub than the dye, that is all.

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#25

Ryan T said:
Its a mandatory fine of €3k irrespective of first offence


No it's not.
I've known several people who've been caught and they've paid fines ranging from €300 - €1200.
If the car's an old banger customs are likely to accept a lower amount as if the fine's too high the owner will most likely just let them impound it.

Customs have also been known to negotiate.
They'll ask for say €1000 but will end up agreeing to take €600 if that's the most the culprit can come up with on the spot.

They're forever dipping around border towns but I've only encountered them dipping once down the country.

mossfort Registered User
#26

the green diesel has a lot more dirt in it than white , im forever changing filters in tractors and the diesel tank because of the amount of dirt in it.
the customs can test your exhaust gases to see what type of diesel your burning if they are in any doubt after dipping . and as was said the traveller got away with a 300 euro fine because he claimed no fixed abode .

#27

I have seen them dipping down around Kilkenny and Thurles. Both those are C&E bases.

Their prosecutions unit based in Bridge End in Donegal can and do send out penalty notices instead of prosecuting offenders. I have heard of people being offered penalties of €600-€1000 before going to court. Again this is a time saving measure as the C&E officers would have to attend court otherwise.

Esel Not your ornery onager
#28

The Nutty M said:
The only place I've ever seen a car dipped was outside cattle marts.....
Yeah, they used to just look for the big streak of diesel down the side of the car....

ianobrien Registered User
#29

MYOB said:
Not for a very long time it hasn't. Its road diesel + dye + a chemical marker thats much harder to scrub than the dye, that is all.


No it isn't

All "road" diesel sold here is Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel (ULSD) and has a Sulphur content of 50ppm max. The fuel is passed through a scrubber to remove excess sulphur, as the typical sulphur content of unscrubbed fuel is 500ppm (depending on source of crude oil used)

The "green diesel" doesn't pass through the scrubber, as it's not for road use (operating the scrubber's expensive). The dye (Solvent Blue 79) is added as it's just a visual marker.

The difference between the fuels is the Sulphur content and the colour. They are the same other than that. I spent some time working in a lab in an oil refinary, and the only way to be sure of which fuel you had was by measuring the Sulphur content via X-Ray Fluorescence.

The damage to engines happens when laundered fuel is burned. The usual method of removing the dye is an acid wash. The problem is that they never neutalise the acid totally (or even remove it totally) and this causes havoc to modern high pressure pumps etc. Also, the byproduct from the acid wash is harmful to the environment and gets dumped at random. The sulphur content isn't reduced by the acid wash so you'll get caught anyway.

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#30

mossfort said:
and as was said the traveller got away with a 300 euro fine because he claimed no fixed abode .


You see, the 'traveller defence' can also be used by all the Northern drivers who get caught by customs with red/green diesel.
Much like speeding fines etc, if customs don't get money off them on the spot then they don't have much chance of recovering a fine unless they impound the vehicle, which is unwanted hassle for them.

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