lods Registered User
#811

dubhthach said:
I'm assuming the "Luas Interconnector" is the line through city centre connecting Green and Red together. Given that this is probably the cheapest of the three options what's the odds it will get the nod?


Sounds like its being renamed and built up to be something its not.

Son of Stupido Registered User
#812

dubhthach said:
I'm assuming the "Luas Interconnector" is the line through city centre connecting Green and Red together. Given that this is probably the cheapest of the three options what's the odds it will get the nod?


My bet is on the metro for the following reasons
  • It has planning and is ready for construction (preliminary works)
  • The services have to be dug up and moved for both the metro and the Luas link, so at this stage (prep works) there would be no savings between the two
  • The link would be out of action for 4 years when they returned to build the underground stations...there wouldnt be enough room to maintain the service
  • The DART Underground is too far behind in the planning stage so is likely to lose out
  • The DU is also (kind of) dependent on the Metro to feed in and link other areas to the network
Although, there could be a hybrid....they do the Luas link but build the underground stations for the metro, not the tunnels, and mothball them until they bore the tunnels at a later stage thus no disruption to the Luas during metro construction

Sponge Bob Banned
#813

BXD is the (very) poor mans Metro North. Do remember that if Leo authorises enabling works in O Connell St that DU is off the list and the choice will be made between MN and BXD.

It will provide Leos constituents with a route to the City Centre rather than Connolly of course. If they could flatten Broombridge and rebuild as a bunker with guard posts on the perimiter .....most preferably by nuking the area.... then bonusage accrues

Put the new prison on top so that the lags have a view perhaps ????

dynamick Registered User
#814

In any case, no decision is to be made on transport capital projects until September. So we can all meet back here in 5 months time and see how the Irish bond yields are doing.

Sponge Bob Banned
#815

Time enough to design a retro Vauban type emplacement in Broombridge even

Highly Salami Registered User
#816

dynamick said:
In any case, no decision is to be made on transport capital projects until September. So we can all meet back here in 5 months time and see how the Irish bond yields are doing.


source?

Jack Noble Registered User
#817

Highly Salami said:
source?


Leo Varadkar said it yesterday at Citywest Luas PR stunt.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0408/1224294220939.html

Mr Varadkar said the two runner-up projects would be progressed to “railway order” status, in effect planning permission for the projects, and then mothballed until the State had the money to progress them further.
While a “strong case” could be made for Metro North, he added: “The question the Government has to answer between now and September is, first of all, do we have the exchequer funding to pay for the exchequer part of it, and is the private funding going to be available.”

oharach Registered User
#818

It really sounds like he wants to say 'yes' to Metro North.

Using the criteria he mentions:

1. Availability of finance:
– Luas BXD is the cheapest but entirely exchequer funded afaik,
– Metro North depends on the ability to raise private finance
– Interconnector also depends on private finance
Winner: impossible to say

2. Cost-benefit analysis
– Luas BXD: very high benefit for low investment
– Metro North: approx 2:1 subject to final tender price
– Interconnector: approx 2.5:1
Winner: Interconnector > Luas BXD > Metro North, but they are all strong

3. Impact on customers (I read this as journey time/convenience)
– Luas BXD: convenient, but doesn't really cut journey times vs walking from Stephen's Green
– Metro North: quantum leap in commuting for people within the corridor as regards speed and convenience
– Interconnector: cuts cross-city journey times and makes many more parts of Dublin accessible
Winner: Metro North imo

4. Benefit the most people
– Luas BXD: relatively small increase in passenger numbers, esp at peak times, when the Green line is full anyway.
– Metro North: all new passengers, except those choosing Metro over Swords Express/airport buses
– Interconnector: likely to see a huge increase in commuting from the Kildare Line; lesser increases on the Northern and Maynooth line
Winner: Metro North or Interconnector broadly evenly matched

5. Climate change
– Luas BXD: small impact – redirecting passengers from buses
– Metro North: large impact – many new passengers; some transferring from buses
– Interconnector: largest impact – many new passengers, who will travel much further on average than the other two projects, therefore saving more carbon emissions.
Winner: Interconnector, followed by Metro North.


That's what I think anyway. In the end it will come down to the relative weight given to each of those factors, and the availability of finance.

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lucernarian Registered User
#819

Is there an official Cost-Benefit Analysis for the luas BXD? It strikes me as quite useless, not even offering significant increases in journey times vs walking, along with disruption to an extremely busy bus corridor. Also is visually obtrusive on TCD/College Green in particular.

mgmt Registered User
#820

To_be_confirmed said:
Is there an official Cost-Benefit Analysis for the luas BXD? It strikes me as quite useless, not even offering significant increases in journey times vs walking, along with disruption to an extremely busy bus corridor. Also is visually obtrusive on TCD/College Green in particular.


College Green should be turned into a pedestrian square. Luas BXD will cause havoc in the city centre for cyclists, particularly at TCD.


Is there scope for the Luas Green Line to continue down underground at St Stephans Green to join up with Metro North?

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markpb Registered User
#821

To_be_confirmed said:
Also is visually obtrusive on TCD/College Green in particular.


You mean put it back the way it was not so long ago?

mgmt said:
College Green should be turned into a pedestrian square. Luas BXD will cause havoc in the city centre for cyclists, particularly at TCD.


There's loads of space around college green to squeeze in two trams lines and cycling space. How on earth do the cyclists in Amsterdam manage to surive?

mgmt said:
Is there scope for the Luas Green Line to continue down underground at St Stephans Green to join up with Metro North?


The largest cost in tunnelling is the entry and exit portals. Digging a tunnel for less than 1km would be terribly bad value for money. If we're dropping a TBM in the city centre, we may as well continue on with it.

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lucernarian Registered User
#822


That's not really here or there, the fact is that there are currently no gantries on College Green and putting back up will have an inevitable visual impact (as far as planning and IMO amenity/visual costs are concerned).

Furthermore, the BXD route would involve catenary wires near more of the front of TCD (the Grafton St. and some of Nassau St. aspects) than was the case in the link above.

And this bit is my opinion, but I think TCD looks better now than it does in that link.

mgmt Registered User
#823

markpb said:

The largest cost in tunnelling is the entry and exit portals. Digging a tunnel for less than 1km would be terribly bad value for money. If we're dropping a TBM in the city centre, we may as well continue on with it.


For what its worth the Great Dublin Area Draft Transport Strategy 2011–2030 proposes to link up Metro North with Luas Green Line. http://dublinobserver.com/2011/03/rail-luas-metro-upgrades-suggested-for-dublin/

The entrance to the tunnel will be cut-and-cover anyway. Drop in the TBM and continue boring out to the Airport. Perhaps with the added benefit of being able to use the downramp of the Luas Green Line to extract the excavated material on a freight tram.

mgmt Registered User
#824

To_be_confirmed said:
That's not really here or there, the fact is that there are currently no gantries on College Green and putting back up will have an inevitable visual impact (as far as planning and IMO amenity/visual costs are concerned).

Furthermore, the BXD route would involve catenary wires near more of the front of TCD (the Grafton St. and some of Nassau St. aspects) than was the case in the link above.

And this bit is my opinion, but I think TCD looks better now than it does in that link.



Also you could potentially have the Lucan Luas line joining up at College Green.

Zebra3 Registered User
#825

Oharach,

Don't forget the "votes for politicans" test.

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