etchyed Registered User
#16

I'm a relatively new poster here but a very long time reader. I would advise anyone who's new to this topic to read this:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61355048&postcount=285

The green line is never going to be upgraded to metro.

The above is just one post. There are countless more threads detailing exactly why it'll never happen. Those who posted in them would probably be better placed to find them, as they go back a good few years.

It would be great if someone more knowledgeable than me could explain the whole thing and put the green line metro myth to bed for another few months, until someone forgets again why it can't happen.

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#17

etchyed said:
I have a question. Is MN completely separated from traffic once it leaves its tunnels? e.g. does it cross any roads, are there pedestrian crossings etc.


It will be almost completely segregated. If memory serves me, it won't actually interact with traffic until north of Estuary, and passenger numbers will be fairly low at that point. It will run near streets certainly, and there will be a few crossings, similar to Luas, but the vast majority of the "Metro"will mostly be segregated from traffic, running on two elevated viaducts (880 m and one 360 m), retained cuttings, underpasses, embankments etc.

I suppose, it will resemble a hybrid of a heavy rail service and a light rail one. But Metro North leans far more towards Heavy Rail, Metro West on the other hand...

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etchyed Registered User
#18

BluntGuy said:
It will be almost completely segregated. If memory serves me, it won't actually interact with traffic until north of Estuary, and passenger numbers will be fairly low at that point. It will run near streets certainly, and there will be a few crossings, similar to Luas, but the vast majority of the "Metro"will mostly be segregated from traffic, running on two elevated viaducts (880 m and one 360 m), retained cuttings, underpasses, embankments etc.

I suppose, it will resemble a hybrid of a heavy rail service and a light rail one. But Metro North leans far more towards Heavy Rail, Metro West on the other hand...

The "hybrid" aspect is what worries me. It seems like a waste of the capacity of a tunnel through the city centre to have trams slowed down by having to cross roads on the outskirts.

#19

etchyed said:
The "hybrid" aspect is what worries me. It seems like a waste of the capacity of a tunnel through the city centre to have trams slowed down by having to cross roads on the outskirts.


Well going through the reference plans, there is only one signalised road traffic crossing, and that's very near the terminus. It states that the Metro will have priority.

The majority of pedestrian crossings will be at the stations, so I doubt crossings will have a major detrimental impact on frequencies. There is a turnback facility of sorts provided north of the airport as well, so Airport-City Centre journeys are unlikely to experience delay at any rate.

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etchyed Registered User
#20

BluntGuy said:
Well going through the reference plans, there is only one signalised road traffic crossing, and that's very near the terminus. It states that the Metro will have priority.

The majority of pedestrian crossings will be at the stations, so I doubt crossings will have a major detrimental impact on frequencies. There is a turnback facility of sorts provided north of the airport as well, so Airport-City Centre journeys are unlikely to experience delay at any rate.

Hmmm, fair enough. Thanks for the info.

sdanseo Registered User
#21

thebman said:
Also the Celtic consortium seems strangly foreign


That probably means it'll be done right, in fairness

Irish interest in the consortia is all well and good but I'd prefer if AIB and the other banks kept their, grubby, greedy, moneygrabbing-bastard hands off our public infrastructure.

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#22

sdonn said:
That probably means it'll be done right, in fairness

Irish interest in the consortia is all well and good but I'd prefer if AIB and the other banks kept their, grubby, greedy, moneygrabbing-bastard hands off our public infrastructure.


Not arguing that, just pointing out the obvious naming issue

sdanseo Registered User
#23

thebman said:
Not arguing that, just pointing out the obvious naming issue


Ah yeah, and I'm just ranting. Free speech FTW

Enbee Registered User
#24

etchyed said:
I'm a relatively new poster here but a very long time reader. I would advise anyone who's new to this topic to read this:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61355048&postcount=285

The green line is never going to be upgraded to metro.


If the metro was going to be extended would it not make more sense to tunnel underneath the green line for an extra stop or two (so Harcourt could be Luas and Metro) and then swing west towards a terminus in somewhere like Rathmines? Perhaps even with a view to eventually extending it all the way to Tallaght?

The only problem, of course, being the population densities beyond the canals.

#25

Enbee said:
If the metro was going to be extended would it not make more sense to tunnel underneath the green line for an extra stop or two (so Harcourt could be Luas and Metro) and then swing west towards a terminus in somewhere like Rathmines? Perhaps even with a view to eventually extending it all the way to Tallaght?

The only problem, of course, being the population densities beyond the canals.


Indeed. It would be nice to have a north-south "Metro" spine, with some services running all the way, some from Airport-St.Stephen's Green and som from St.Stephen's Green-Cherrywood.

Of course, if we'd had proper planning, this would've been done from the start. But alas, an awkward and expensive Green Line upgrade would be needed to make this happen, along with some fairly redundant stops (Harcourt doesn't need Luas and Metro tbh).

ilovegermany Registered User
#26

BluntGuy said:
Indeed. It would be nice to have a north-south "Metro" spine, with some services running all the way, some from Airport-St.Stephen's Green and som from St.Stephen's Green-Cherrywood.

Of course, if we'd had proper planning, this would've been done from the start. But alas, an awkward and expensive Green Line upgrade would be needed to make this happen, along with some fairly redundant stops (Harcourt doesn't need Luas and Metro tbh).


Isn't the Plan to eventually extend the Metro from Stephen's Green with a few new stations and link in with the Luas Green line somewhere around Miltown and then use the existing tracks to Sandyford-Cherrywood-Bray (only a couple of small stretchs of unsegregated track from Miltown to Cherrywood). The existing green line could then be expanded out to other areas (e.g. Rathfarnham) and will run all the way through the city centre to Boombridge and eventually Finglas.
This will provide both a north-south luas and metro.

North Cork Registered User
#27

http://www.rte.ie/business/2010/0322/eib.html


The European Investment Bank has agreed in principle to contribute €500m to the Dublin Metro project.
The planned Metro would provide a 19km link from Dublin city centre, via the airport, to Swords in the north of the county.

The EIB said today that it sees the Metro as a key infrastructure project for the country. Its total cost is estimated at around €6 billion.


The funds are subject to full board approval, and a decision of the Government here to go ahead with the scheme.

The bank is also currently considering two other public-private partnership projects in Ireland, which would form part of a second western transport corridor between Cork, Limerick and Galway - the N17-N18 Gort to Tuam motorway link and the N11-N7 motorway.

Meanwhile, the European Investment Bank today reiterated its commitment to Ireland and said it would continue to support projects in the transport, energy and education sectors.

It also said it would reinforce support for small and medium sized businesses in close co-operation with local banks.

Funding of €1.02 billion for Ireland last year
The EIB last year provided €1.02 billion for six projects here - the largest ever amount secured by the country.

Funding for recent energy projects included €300m for the Eirgrid East West Interconnector and €200m for wind farms under the ESB's renewables programme. €300m was also given to Dublin airport for its new terminal.

The EIB also gave a total of €260m to AIB, Bank of Ireland and Ulster Bank for credit for small and medium sized enterprises during the year.
'We are confident that industry, transport, social infrastructure, health and education will continue to benefit from EIB support in coming years,'the bank's vice president Plutarchos Sakellaris said at the start of a visit to Ireland.

Mr Sakellaris met Finance Minister Brian Lenihan, the Governor the Central Bank, Patrick Honohan, Transport Minister Noel Dempsey as well as officials from the Financial Regulatory Authority during his visit to Dublin.

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Sponge Bob Banned
#28

That is excellent news. We need a top rated institution in the overall funding pool and we have none in Ireland any more.

Of course the €6bn figure for Metro North is plain wrong.

I take it they mean that €500m will be fecked into a pot from which MN will be financed ....or else they mean €2bn for MN and €4bn for Interconnector or something along those lines.

#29

Sponge Bob said:
That is excellent news. We need a top rated institution in the overall funding pool and we have none in Ireland any more.

Of course the €6bn figure for Metro North is plain wrong.

I take it they mean that €500m will be fecked into a pot from which MN will be financed ....or else they mean €2bn for MN and €4bn for Interconnector or something along those lines.


MN was reputed to cost €5bn at some point, €3 billion has been quoted, €2 billion is the more recent one and even less than €2 billion has been quoted.

I was very reserved in my support for a Metro North costing €5 billion. (For what you get - a high capacity tram line of 19 km in length).

But for between maybe €1.6 billion and €2.3 billion, it begins to look like a much better deal, especially towards the low end of the scale. If the final tender came in below €2 billion, I would be delighted.

Of course, the other big project which has been mooted at about a billion (prob realistically around €1.5 billion) is DART Underground. Now THAT offers value for money that Metro North will never be able to compete with.

Sponge Bob Banned
#30

BluntGuy said:
MN was reputed to cost €5bn at some point, €3 billion has been quoted, €2 billion is the more recent one and even less than €2 billion has been quoted.


Yeah but as certain loony posters loudly trilled....it is a ppp and will not cost €500m in any given year. So what is the €500m for ???

I was very reserved in my support for a Metro North costing €5 billion. (For what you get - a high capacity tram line of 19 km in length).


Bertie would have spent that of course

But for between maybe €1.6 billion and €2.3 billion, it begins to look like a much better deal, especially towards the low end of the scale. If the final tender came in below €2 billion, I would be delighted.

Of course, the other big project which has been mooted at about a billion (prob realistically around €1.5 billion) is DART Underground. Now THAT offers value for money that Metro North will never be able to compete with.


Interconnector ( the full project including quad tracks/electrification/rolling stick ) is around €4bn and added to €2bn would be €6bn

If I hear it is for bloody Metro West and Luas to Lucan I will be very cross

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