Rebelheart Banned
#1

Just thought some of you may be interested in knowing that numerous Wikipedia articles have been renamed in the past 6 months in order to insert the term "British Isles" into the new title. Thus 'History of Britain' has been renamed 'History of the British Isles', 'Hill Lists in Great Britain' has been renamed 'Hill lists in the British Isles' and so forth.

I'm sure most people are by now familiar with the 8-year long edit war on the main British Isles article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:British_Isles), with 28 archives of former discussions. It's well worth reading if you haven't done so already (especially for the term's origin in the English language).

The latest article to be renamed was originally 'Military history of Britain' but changed to 'Military history of the British Isles'. It is currently in an edit war under the title 'Military history of the peoples of the British Islands'.

There is a vote at the moment on what to rename the new article. There are five options for the new title:

Option 1 - Military history of the British Isles

Option 2 - British military history

Option 3 - Military history of Britain and Ireland

Option 4 - Create two articles. Military history of Britain + Military history of Ireland

Option 5 - Military history of the United Kingdom


You can vote here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Military_history_of_the_peoples_of_the_British_Islands#Poll_on_Article_Name

meglome Registered User
#2

It funny but the term British Isles really irks me. I don't use it and I don't like it when I hear it. There are several reason why but tourism alone is a good enough reason to not lump us in with Britain.

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P. Breathnach Registered User
#3

I think it is too late to get the rest of the world to abandon the phrase. There just isn't another good term that we can promote in its stead.

Console yourselves with the thought that the original Brits were people of the Celtic tradition, and not the Anglo-Normans that we had trouble with later.

#4

P. Breathnach said:
I think it is too late to get the rest of the world to abandon the phrase. There just isn't another good term that we can promote in its stead.

Console yourselves with the thought that the original Brits were people of the Celtic tradition, and not the Anglo-Normans that we had trouble with later.


In an episode of Time Team they quoted a recent study of DNA which has shown that up to 90% of the Uks population are descended from Celts. Saxons, Angles, Jutes et al make for a very small proportion. So it has been a family squabble all along.

Rebelheart Banned
#5

P. Breathnach said:
I think it is too late to get the rest of the world to abandon the phrase. There just isn't another good term that we can promote in its stead.

Console yourselves with the thought that the original Brits were people of the Celtic tradition, and not the Anglo-Normans that we had trouble with later.



That's far, far from the truth. If you have a read of the main "British Isles" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles) page you will see that the term has been abandoned in the past five years by plenty of international publications, and there is an unquestionable decline in its use:

A number of international publications have abandoned the term – in early 2008, National Geographic abandoned use of the term and replaced the plates on its maps which formerly read British Isles with British and Irish Isles.[31] Likewise, publishers of road atlases such as Michelin,[32][33] SK Baker,[34] Hallwag,[35] Philip's,[36][37] Reader's Digest[38] and The Automobile Association (AA)[39][40] have replaced British Isles with Great Britain and Ireland or Britain and Ireland in their recent maps. In 2008, Folens, an Irish publisher of school text books, decided to abandon using the term in Ireland while continuing to use it in the United Kingdom.[41][42]



As you can imagine those references didn't get on the page without a long fight. It has also been abandoned by the French TV Channel TV5 following a complaint and is generally avoided even by British stations now, although in Britain it is increasingly being used by Eurosceptics as a means to separate Britain from the rest of Europe. Furthermore, the government of Ireland is also officially on record objecting to the term and it does not exist in any British-Irish agreements such as the GFA in 1998 where 'Council of the Isles', for example, is used rather than 'Council of the British Isles'. All of these things are referenced in the wikipedia article.


Actually, read this for a very detailed list of the growing objections, academic and otherwise, to the name:





Names and their meanings change all the time. Once upon a time the swastika was merely a Hindu symbol for peace. And, as you observed, once upon a time British meant something entirely different. So why would this be any different?

Rebelheart Banned
#6

PS: The Norman invasion was much more a Cambro-Norman invasion than it was an Anglo-Norman invasion, and led by Cambro-Normans like Strongbow, the earl of Pembroke, also. A Breathnach should know these things!

partyguinness Registered User
#7

I had a similar problem with an English guy on YouTube.

He had posted a video on the "British Lions" and I asked him to correct it.

Cue...a fairly obnoxious set of replies back and forth with the general tone being that I was being "precious". And that was the more polite of the words used.

How do I vote? Cant seem to make it out.

Rebelheart Banned
#8

partyguinness said:
I had a similar problem with an English guy on YouTube.

He had posted a video on the "British Lions" and I asked him to correct it.

Cue...a fairly obnoxious set of replies back and forth with the general tone being that I was being "precious". And that was the more polite of the words used.

How do I vote? Cant seem to make it out.



Hi Party (Did your sister get sorted out in Australia?)

Yeah, that's another example of "British Isles" being abandoned ; the rugby organisers officially changed the name to the British and Irish Lions.

To vote, just click on the link in my first post. When you get to that wikipedia page click the button on the top right that says Log in/Create Account. Then just log in and if you don't have a wikipedia nick create one for yourself in about 20 seconds.

Then scroll down the page and put 'support' or 'oppose' underneath each of the five options(as listed in my original post). It should take about 3 minutes :-)

#9

so if ireland is not one of the "British Isles" where is it? what is the alternative name for the relatively insignificant set of islands off the north east of Europe?

I can understand getting the name of the British and Irish lions correct, because that infers nationality, but isn't Ireland part of the islands that make up the british Isles, along with Great Britian, Isle of Man, Jersey etc?

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r3nu4l Administrator
#10

Fratton Fred said:
so if ireland is not one of the "British Isles" where is it? what is the alternative name for the relatively insignificant set of islands off the north east of Europe?

I can understand getting the name of the British and Irish lions correct, because that infers nationality, but isn't Ireland part of the islands that make up the british Isles, along with Great Britian, Isle of Man, Jersey etc?

Isn't it obvious? The 'Irish Isles' of course!!

After all Britain is a one of those islands incorporated into the Irish Isles, we couldn't leave you guys our on your own!

4 people have thanked this post
Erin Go Brath Registered User
#11

Fratton Fred said:
but isn't Ireland part of the islands that make up the british Isles, along with Great Britian, Isle of Man, Jersey etc?


No

jhegarty Registered User
#12

Fratton Fred said:
so if ireland is not one of the "British Isles" where is it? what is the alternative name for the relatively insignificant set of islands off the north east of Europe?


I could be wrong , but I think Ireland is on the island of Ireland.

I presume you acknowledge Iceland exists (even though it's not part of a larger group) ?

2 people have thanked this post
P. Breathnach Registered User
#13

Fratton Fred said:
so if ireland is not one of the "British Isles" where is it? what is the alternative name for the relatively insignificant set of islands off the north east of Europe?


I have tried promoting "The Celtic Archipelago" but found few takers. I suspect that a lot of people cannot spell "archipelago".

1 person has thanked this post
IIMII Registered User
#14

Fratton Fred said:
so if ireland is not one of the "British Isles" where is it? what is the alternative name for the relatively insignificant set of islands off the north east of Europe?

I can understand getting the name of the British and Irish lions correct, because that infers nationality, but isn't Ireland part of the islands that make up the british Isles, along with Great Britian, Isle of Man, Jersey etc?

This is Ireland. Over there -------------------------------> Britain. We don't need a collective name, other than Europe.

I'm happy with our name, until some shower try to re-write history under the pretence of geography.

It ain't Geographers that keep changing wikipedia

1 person has thanked this post
IIMII Registered User
#15

r3nu4l said:
Isn't it obvious? The 'Irish Isles' of course!!

After all Britain is a one of those islands incorporated into the Irish Isles, we couldn't leave you guys our on your own!

Exactly, isn't Britain located in the Irish sea? Slam dunk, your ass is ours

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