Sigma Force Registered User

After much chopping and changing of ideas we have finally deceided for our next dog (our other 2 are rescues as is the parents dog and cats, and 2 of my birds before anyone suggests rescue) to go for a Phalene (basically a Papillon but the ears are dropped and not butterfly shaped).

Just wondering does anyone on here have Papillons or Phalenes?
They are a great all round little dog a little delicate but are still well able for walks and agility.

anniehoo Registered User

Ive never heard of a Phaléne had to google it there. Very cute breed and interesting the way its called the "moth" and the papillon is the "butterfly"

Beth Registered User

Yes, I've a Papillon.
Bought as a Phalene though (both can come from Papillon parents so can get a mix in the litter). Ears are usually up by 10 weeks - if they're not, they're usually Phalene. But there are Phalene breeders out there that breed Phalene to Phalene only. Hard enough to find in Ireland.

Saying that, our fellas ears went up around 12 weeks then one dropped a few weeks afterwards, so we fed cheese seeing as we couldnt remove calcuim to drop the other The calcium that maintains the ears as erect is taken when they're teething so if you dont want a banjaxed looking dog, make sure they get enough calcium.

Rory123 Registered User

Why not get a rescue dog?

...Get's coat and leaves. Sorry.

anniehoo Registered User

Beth said:
The calcium that maintains the ears as erect is taken when they're teething so if you dont want a banjaxed looking dog, make sure they get enough calcium.

Can you explain what you mean by this Beth! Do you mean the Phalenes are calcium deprived as pups to make their ears drop?

Beth Registered User

Eh no, I never said nor implied that.

The calcium that maintains the ears OF THE PAPILLONS as erect is taken when they're teething so if you dont want a banjaxed looking dog, make sure they get enough calcium.
I have made that clearer by fixing it in the quote.

If the Papillons - who have erect ears by 10 weeks, are not given enough calcium when they're teething, one of the ears will drop because the teeth take the calcium that maintains the erect ears while pups are still growing.

The Phalene ears occur naturally. Just like Papillon ears are erect naturally.

Papillons and Phalenes are separate dogs. Phalenes were the forerunners then the Papillons got more popular because of people in the previous centuries liking the erect ears. Phalenes suffered a severe drop in their numbers but have regained some ground over the last while.

Lots of puppies get adjustments in their diets - such as extra fibre for anal glands, Papillons with one ear dropped should just get alittle extra calcium to bring the ear back up.

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anniehoo Registered User

Thanks beth, sorry i wasnt implying that thats what you had done i had jsut read the "taken" part as "taken away" ..i know absolutely nothing about the breed so was just being curious. Theyre a beautiful breed!Thanks

Beth Registered User

Maybe I should have made the "taken" part a bit clearer - its "taken" by their system for their adult teeth, not taken by anyone or intentionally.

If a Papillons ears are meant to be up and they or one of them drop, its not a natural drop like the Phalene ears.

I've finally found a photo of what I'm on about so..

Papillon (mine) who had both erect ears, and one dropped when getting front teeth (all 4 top teeth together), then stood up again, then dropped again when the bigger teeth were coming through.

In the pic you can see that the drop by the ear makes the ear very far out from the side of the head. Compare that with the Phalene ears and they're closer to the head - so my Papillons ears were meant to be up.

Phalene ears. Its not just the weight of the hair that pulls the ears down and close. They're pretty close when they're puppies without the long hair too.

from Google image search

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Sigma Force Registered User

*Trips up Rory on the way out*

Beth your wee pooch is lovely, wonky ears and all

Beth Registered User


He has normal ears now though
Still hasnt grown into them yet - almost though

awol1966 Registered User

Hi I breed and show Phalenes, if you have any questions or would be interested in a puppy you can contact me on

pipop Registered User

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