#1

Following on from my earlier post, we've decided to lock the two eircom threads as they've either gone so off topic, both discussing the exact same thing which is pointless or so much incorrect information in them its not even funny.

So the idea behind this thread is ONLY to try and stop eircom, or other ISP's, from censoring what websites you can access based on IRMA's suggestions.

This thread is not for:
- Discussing the music industry's current business model
- Discussing that its OK to download copyright material

This thread is ONLY for discussing what can be done to stop eircom from censoring websites full stop, anything else is seen as off-topic and may be deleted so lets come up with ideas to stop this.

Before you post please read the following so you understand the latest announcement by eircom which was posted 24th February 2009 -

READ THIS before posting.


Ireland's largest ISP won't block The Pirate Bay -- the embattled
BitTorrent search engine and tracker -- absent a court order, a
spokesman said Tuesday.

Eircom is aware of copyright infringement issues but will not block
The Pirate Bay unless major record labels can obtain a court order
requiring it and other ISPs (Internet service providers) to do so, the
spokesman said.

Eircom recently avoided a trial with record labels EMI, Sony,
Universal Music Group and Warner Music Group. The labels took Eircom
to court to try to force the ISP to install traffic-monitoring
equipment that would have examined content of its subscribers in an
attempt to clamp down on illegal file sharing.

After eight days in court in January, Eircom opted to settle with the
labels. Eircom said it would not install content monitoring equipment
but instead agree to investigate subscribers suspected of file sharing
and disconnect them if their activity continued, the spokesman said.

Content monitoring is "not our business," the spokesman said. "We have
no interest in it."

Eircom will accept IP (Internet Protocol) addresses and other
information supplied by companies working for record labels that track
illegally traded content, the spokesman said. However, Eircom will not
turn over subscriber information to record labels.

The details of the agreement with the record labels are still being
worked out, such as the level of proof Eircom would find acceptable in
order to justify disconnecting a subscriber. Implementation of a
warning and disconnection system is a couple of months away, he said.

Eircom's terms and conditions for its subscribers will not change, as
the ISP has always had the right to cut off customers engaged in
illegal activity, he said.

The situation in Ireland mirrors other efforts the entertainment
industry has undertaken to try and shut down The Pirate Bay, which is
one of the most popular sites to obtain torrents, or small information
files, that coordinate the download of material via the BitTorrent
protocol.

In December, a Danish court upheld a ruling that required the ISP
Tele2 to block The Pirate Bay, in a case that was initiated by the
International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI). Tele2
was considering appealing the ruling.

The Pirate Bay is having its own troubles in Sweden. Four men are
standing trial this week on a charge of aiding with making material
available that is under copyright. They could face prison, and the
Motion Picture Association and IFPI are seeking around US$12.5 million
in combined damages.


Here is what I suggested earlier that we can all do

me said:
Petition eircom to fight the court case, if and when it comes. Petition your ISP, if you're not with eircom, to fight any such action against them. Contact Digital Rights Ireland to see if there's anything being done, or to see if it can be started. Contact Ireland Offline group and see if there's anything they can do. Petition the minister for communications to get involved. Contact Comreg to see if there's anything they can do to get eircom to fight the court action. Contact the media to let them know of your concerns, and see if they're willing to get a public debate going. Radio shows like Gerry Ryan, Joe Duffy, Ray D'Arcy and The Last Word, would be a start.


Now, let the sensible debate begin...

7 people have thanked this post
My name is URL Registered User
#3

Sorry, I didn't know another thread existed when I made my earlier post.

On topic, those are good ideas jor el. There needs to be an Irish net neutrality lobby group set up, not just one that's focussed on Eircom. Is there already such a thing?

bobbbb Registered User
#4

Upward Spiral said:
Sorry, I didn't know another thread existed when I made my earlier post.

On topic, those are good ideas jor el. There needs to be an Irish net neutrality lobby group set up, not just one that's focussed on Eircom. Is there already such a thing?


You could start one.

Once Eircom start to lose customers by the thousand they'll back down.
They only ones who will stay will be those who know how to use proxies.

Duiske Registered User
#5

We know Eircom's position (at the moment), as can be seen in jor el's post above. However, I think its likely that one or more of the other isp's may well try to fight this by contesting any application to the Irish courts, and if unsuccessful, possibly going to the European Court. This document DIRECTIVE 2000/31/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT is certainly going to be used in any challenge.
The relevant parts are Articles 12,13,14 and especially 15, which can be found on pages 12 and 13 of the pdf.

Apologies if this has been covered in the other thread.

skelliser Registered User
#6

some more links
http://blackoutireland.com/
http://blog.blackoutireland.com/

At the moment the only organised group spreading awareness is this facebook group
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=53586632674

Spear Moderator
#7

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2009/02/26/1235237810486.html

Similar attempts and ever more encompassing attempts in Australia failed. There was enough opposition, (only 10% of the public supported it) that even someone as clueless as a politician realised this was a very bad idea.

#8

I'm interested in seeing what the other ISPs that are not Irish owned (Utv, BT and UPC especially) do as it'd be a case of them giving in to the
music companies in one of their markets and not in others.

Kenno90 Registered User
#9

if they even block one tiny website , i'm moving to a new ISP

Marlow Registered User
#10

First of all, what Eircom has done or will do is nothing different, to what was happening first.

Honestly, the settlement has made no difference to before.

This article: http://www.pcworld.com/article/160114/irish_isp_we_wont_block_the_pirate_bay.html
has all the bits in there, which pretty much reflects what the majority of the ISPs will do about it.

The phone companies don't wiretap without a court-order. Starting to monitor and filtering traffic equals to wiretapping. And as the article says, Eircom, nor any other ISP will release customer data to IFPI, IRMA and the likes.

/M

2 people have thanked this post
skelliser Registered User
#11

i understand tho that a garda superintendent or even the garda commissioner is the only person who can apply to the courts for a wiretap

Marlow Registered User
#12

skelliser said:
i understand tho that a garda superintendent or even the garda commissioner is the only person who can apply to the courts for a wiretap


Yes. And thus the task lies with the media industry to provide proof in the first place, sufficient proof, before a customer gets notified or disconnected.

While that all is on, Eircom will still not release your data or tap into your data. It's none of their business.

/M

#13

bobbbb said:
You could start one.

Once Eircom start to lose customers by the thousand they'll back down.
They only ones who will stay will be those who know how to use proxies.
*broken record*
If you move to another ADSL provider eircom still get line rental and wholesale rate. Eircom loose problem customers so it's win-win for them

skelliser Registered User
#14

This is ideally what we should be following, a well organised continous campaign
http://creativefreedom.org.nz/blackout.html

bobbbb Registered User
#15

Capt' said:
*broken record*
If you move to another ADSL provider eircom still get line rental and wholesale rate. Eircom loose problem customers so it's win-win for them


If that was the case Eircom wouldnt be in the broadband business. They would only be in the line rental business

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