Hopefully it wont spark an angry debate...........
Wondering what peoples opinions are on the best
calibre/round for F-class would be for 600m and possibley beyond.
Pros/cons of each calibre welcome.
I know myself someday I would love to go F-Class but not for
a few more years until I have gained lots of experiance with
what I have. For the time being it does not hurt to do a bit
of research and learning while I save the precious cash needed
to make the transition from rimfire to centre fire.
I know the 6.5 is popular and I have fired the .308
with Iron sites but I know personally I would
like to get something ultra modern and the way of the future rather
than tried and trusted.
From what I saw at the NRAI international Fclass competition , the main calibre of choice seemed to be 6.5x284 , there was also some .308 and at least one person shooting .223.
This was being shot to international standards so the shortest range was 300 meters with the longest shot on both the team and individual being 600 meters.
The Individual match was shot on the Saturday and winds were light and the weather was warm and sunny , Sunday was a different cup of tea with strong winds.
I was amazed at the skill of all the shooters in scoring so many V Bulls in those conditions and could only conclude that an intimate knowledge of how your chosen caliber would behave in wind was vital .
Having said that , the 6.5x 284 ruled the day .
Barrel life is pretty short with this round and the competitive life of a match barrel is about 1000 rounds . One guy on the American F-Class team (and a US national champion) claimed that he wouldn't use a barrel for competition that had 700 rounds through it .. he reckoned it was getting a bit erratic at that point.
Who am I to argue ....?
Anyone who can repeatedly hit a target at 600 meters in a gale that many would find a challenge at 200 meters in still air has my respect.
I too would love to shoot F Class , and perhaps some day I might.
Lots of practice and work on my wind reading skills (Or the lack thereof) , some training from experienced shooters ..and I might do it.
I'd imagine there will be some pictures of the guns and the shooters ,covered in the next issue of the Digest. Should be interesting to anyone who missed it.
Check out the NRAI web site, They are holding an open day with experienced shooters to give advice on the 24th June.
As a result of the many enquiries to the NRAI as to how people can take part in long range shooting and in particular F-Class it has been decided by the NRAI to hold an Open day on the 24 June 2007 at 10.45am. This shoot is for non members and members alike the entry fee will be 10 euro with 2 + 15 rounds on each distance 500 and 600 yards. Members of the Republic of Ireland rifle team will be on hand to help. So if you would to try Target Rifle or F-Class at long range why not come along to the MNSCI ranges.
For more on this email David at firstname.lastname@example.org
F class TR is.308 or .223 and is a great starting point, I shot a trg22 in both the league and the international, great crack and the other competitors are really class, very helpfull, they do want to bring you on and improve your skills.
Thanks for the info Seamus, will definitely be there.
What are the events using the .223, what distance etc?
Excellent News! I could be begging Vegeta for a lift that day.
With the Cost involved and the thoughts of needing to change barrels
in the big stuff after a 1000's rounds or so its kinda scary.
You would want to know exactly what you want before you buy.
It would also be nice to get advice and have access to people
that could coach you.
EDIT: To remove comments about the The NRAI website. I was wrong about
the site. The Links work when using Internet Explorer thanks Vegeta for pointing
that out. I had been using Firefox web browser and it did not display the page correctly.
Having a few issues with my boards.ie account at the moment so hopefully I can save
Check out the results on the nrai site, Trudy Anderson from Canada was shooting a .223 ( mind u, a custom gun,,,,) and she beat her three team members in the individual and I was marking their team shoot, and she beat them again in it.
How to make friends and influence people, eh, beat your mates 6.5 284's with a .223.
On the open day the distance's are 500 and 600 and a .223 can do that on a calm day. but your score that day dosn't matter at all, you are there to learn and enjoy, you might be pleasantly surprised. Anyway, do what I done when I started, just stand beside someone and admire his gun out loud, grovel a little and you will be offered a shot or five, it works, I used to go down the line shooting everyone else's guns and their ammo, ha ha
I can't go that day but hope to see you on the line shortly.
Jesus .223 to 600 yards is super impressive. I know its probably a hand load and a custom rifle but still all the same.
Its very interesting i have been reading up on this for the morning and still cant decide on the best calibre
6.5-284 seems good but has a short barrell life and I would probably need a custom rifle for that type of calibre. This may be too expensive for me
Good old reliable .308 is a common enough calibre so there are plenty of rifles available (whether these would be good enough is another thing)
Then there's the .338 Lapua (my personal favourite) which is pretty new, not many rifles chambered for it (maybe that's saying something in itself) and will probably be expensive to run. Then there's the recoil
I know the Midlands are going to be building a 1000 yard or meter range so if I do get in to this I'd want a rifle capable of shooting out to that distance.
Decisions...decisions. Well I'll stick with the .223 for now and if my skills surpass the rifle then I will trade up.
Pretty much any of the rifles used for this are custom jobs...
I'd imagine you will be looking at the high end of off the shelf rifles , and putting a custom barrel on the original action (Which will probably need some work too) A lot of the stuff I saw had either "Panda" , "Quadlite" or "quadlock " actions depending on the calibre. Look them up , they are as cheap as chips...."Not"
(A BAT action )
338 would probably be a bit of a beast from a recoil point of view, the trend seems to be towards 308 and lower for this stuff. Much bigger than that and the constant practice starts to beat you up.
The 6mm stuff is pretty popular for 1000m shooting and seems to do well, the real trick is being consistant and reading the wind and mirage.
Same here .. , but that could take a long time in my case.
Are there any competitions using un-modified production rifles.
I'm guessing the AI and Sako TRG-42 rifles would feature strongly
I did see a TRG22 at the competition.. (308)
The SAKO TRG22 in Duffy's Looks pretty cool and
afordable at 2 and half grand if you were to save or take a loan out.
(Not even gonna think about a scope price though)
Anyone care to bounce some costs/prices around the thread
to give us a rough idea what a rough entry level costs would be ?
Just how much money are we talking about to get an entry level
Rifle that is good for 600m. (One where you can change the barrel
without having to go through total Hell with Irish Laws)
It would be a shame to spend a load of cash on a rifle only
to find it would not be good enough to compete to win.
for that cash you could build a serious custom weapon
Trg22 .308 @€2500,
AI 6.5 55 @ €4400,
AI 6.5 284 €4600,
s/h, musgrave action, fulton gun in 6.5 284 €2500
s/h rpa quadlock, hps stock, 6.5 284 125 rounds shot, spare 7mm barrell and bolt, 80% shot €3600
New Barnard action, Mastin stock, 32" 6.5 284 €4000
A few pricesI have found for suitable firearms, 6.5 284 and or 7mm are the preferred caliber in use, 6.5 284 1200 rounds, 7mm 700 rounds and you probably need a new barrell, especially for a comp'. On the USA team site they don't recommend you come to the team selection for the 2008 worlds with more than 500 rounds on the barrell and they shoot mostly 6.5 284.
.308 is ok for 300/500/600 yds and then they die, and you can really only shoot F-TR class. Good place to start though but if buying a new .308, a s/h 6.5 284 is a better firearm and just jump of the deep end, someone will catch ya.
Nightforce 8-32 x 50 is a popoular scope @ €1500 but a leupold 8-22 x 42 @ €600 of ebay would do the job. Lots of scopes about.
In mirage I have to turn the scope way down anyway.
Get to the open day before spending money, ask lots of questions and then save up, have two birthdays but buy a 6.5 284, I will be buying one before the weeks out.
Cheers and beers
Just mailed Border Barrels there and to my surprise the .338 is not a legal F-Class caliber apparently.
Did they tell you why its not allowed?