[medias]

Hi my girlfriend is Croatian and we want to move to Ireland (I'm Irish and working here). I understand that she does not need a visa but does need a work permit to work here.

She has a degree in economics and is currently working in Croatia (she is 31).

I believe a letter of intent of employment is required to apply for the work permit. I imagine it will be very difficult to apply for positions here when not in the country and then explain that you need the permit to the prospective employer?

Does anyone have any experience on the best way to achieve this? I understand that this will not be an issue from June 2013 as Croatia will join the EU but I would rather not have to wait that long :-)

[ResearchWill]

Originally Posted by medias

Hi my girlfriend is Croatian and we want to move to Ireland (I'm Irish and working here). I understand that she does not need a visa but does need a work permit to work here.

She has a degree in economics and is currently working in Croatia (she is 31).

I believe a letter of intent of employment is required to apply for the work permit. I imagine it will be very difficult to apply for positions here when not in the country and then explain that you need the permit to the prospective employer?

Does anyone have any experience on the best way to achieve this? I understand that this will not be an issue from June 2013 as Croatia will join the EU but I would rather not have to wait that long :-)

While Crotia is expected to be a member next year, I'm not sure of the full free movement of workers, it could be a further 7 years after that.


What transitional arrangements apply to freedom of movement for workers?

The following measures relating to the freedom of Croatian workers to move to other EU Member States have been agreed:

    For a two year period EU Member States can choose restrict the right of Croatians to work in their country, or in particular sectors.

    These arrangements will be reviewed after two years, with Member States allowed to extend national measures for a further period. The transitional arrangement should in principle come to an end after five years but may be extended for a further two years in those Member States where putting an end to the arrangement would lead to serious disturbances to the labour market or where there would be a threat of such disruption.

http://www.eubusiness.com/europe/croatia/accession-1


Now in relation to you wanting to move here, to get a working permit guide here
http://www.djei.ie/publications/labo...december11.pdf

How long have you been in a relationship, if more than 2 years and same can be documented then you can apply for a de-facto relationship visa, http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP07000278

Best idea is to get a good immigration solicitor in Ireland to guide you through the process.

[Little Ted]

usually non-visa required nationals arrive in Ireland and then apply for a stamp 4. Various factors affect your likelihood of getting a stamp 4, but there are no guarantees. You might be lucky and have it within 2 weeks, or 12 months! Although, if she does not need a visa as you say, there is a good chance she will get a stamp 4 - its more beneficial to the state to allow her to work than it is to have her supported by you and not paying any taxes! If you have an Immigration garda in your area, you may well be lucky enough that all it takes is a visit to the local garda station and €100 for a GNIB card.

There is lots of information and advice out there on visa's, stamp 4, citizenship etc. You just need to spend the time trawling and researching. You don't need a immigration lawyer IMO - its an unneccessary expense if you ask me. if you are computer literate, prepared to research then you can find out just as much as a solicitor can for you. If you don't meet the requirements, or if an INIS official drags their feet in issuing a stamp 4 then no solicitor can change that.

[medias]

ResearchWill, thank you for the details, that is very interesting. I had presumed that citizens could work here once they joined the EU. I have sent a query now to the department of foreign affairs to get the specific details on whether Croatians will need a work permit after they join the EU.

I have only started my research but I had missed the de-facto relationship option altogether. This does sound like a potential alternative.


Little Ted, thank you. It looks like the “The stamp four” allows non EU citizens to work here. I will check with the Garda Immigration office and report back on the criteria and try and get a feel for the likelihood of it happening.


One further question that I would like to ask is that, given she is in good employment in Croatia, can she apply for positions in Ireland before she comes to try and reduce her risk or will employers immediately ask for the stamp 4/work permit before making any offer?

[Little Ted]

Originally Posted by medias

One further question that I would like to ask is that, given she is in good employment in Croatia, can she apply for positions in Ireland before she comes to try and reduce her risk or will employers immediately ask for the stamp 4/work permit before making any offer?

Unless she has quite specialised qualifications and/or experience, then I would say, yes it will be difficult to even get an interview without a work permit (stamp 4). Many jobs advertised specifically ask if you have permission to work in Ireland at teh application stage. Given the amount of people unemployed in Ireland, employers are not really bothered to interview someone who may not be available yet, not when there are literally hundreds of people with permission to work and available now. There is no need either to sponsor people as there once was, as again, there are plenty of people available in Ireland with the required permits. As I said, getting stamp 4 can be as quick as a few weeks and I have also heard others take up to a year. Our own case (which I should state was not like your own as my husband is a visa required national) took 6 mths.

[ResearchWill]

Originally Posted by Little Ted

Unless she has quite specialised qualifications and/or experience, then I would say, yes it will be difficult to even get an interview without a work permit (stamp 4). Many jobs advertised specifically ask if you have permission to work in Ireland at teh application stage. Given the amount of people unemployed in Ireland, employers are not really bothered to interview someone who may not be available yet, not when there are literally hundreds of people with permission to work and available now. There is no need either to sponsor people as there once was, as again, there are plenty of people available in Ireland with the required permits. As I said, getting stamp 4 can be as quick as a few weeks and I have also heard others take up to a year. Our own case (which I should state was not like your own as my husband is a visa required national) took 6 mths.

Work permit and stamp 4 are different things. Stamp 1 allows a person to remain and only work if he has a work permit. Stamp 4 allows a person to remain and work untill a specified date without a work permit. Stamp 4 is given to a partner or spouse of eu or Irish national or a refugee etc. http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Stamps

This area is in reality a minefield hence why I would advice a solicitor with in this case either jobs and enterprise or dept of justice looking after the application depending on the application.

[gral6]

She won't get stamp 4 unless you merry her.There are no chances at all that she's gonna get work permit here/www.entemp.ie
The only way is a marriage

[medias]

Originally Posted by ResearchWill

Work permit and stamp 4 are different things. Stamp 1 allows a person to remain and only work if he has a work permit. Stamp 4 allows a person to remain and work untill a specified date without a work permit. Stamp 4 is given to a partner or spouse of eu or Irish national or a refugee etc. http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Stamps

This area is in reality a minefield hence why I would advice a solicitor with in this case either jobs and enterprise or dept of justice looking after the application depending on the application.

When you say minefield do you mean the application process itself?




Gral6 Can I ask what you base this on? Is it really that difficult

[medias]

In relation to the question over what happnens when Croatia join the EU, I got the following response from the department of Justice:


The legislation regarding Croatian citizens has not been finalised and we
do not know what the position will be with regards to Work Permits. Please
contact us later in the year around November or December when we should be able to answer your queries.

[ResearchWill]

Originally Posted by gral6

She won't get stamp 4 unless you merry her.There are no chances at all that she's gonna get work permit here/www.entemp.ie
The only way is a marriage

INIS would disagree with you as I already posted http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP07000278

Don't think you need to be married to satisfy de-facto.

[ResearchWill]

Originally Posted by medias

When you say minefield do you mean the application process itself?




Gral6 Can I ask what you base this on? Is it really that difficult

The application process is supposed to be simple, but 2 issues for you do you apply to justice for de-facto or do you go to jobs for work permit.

Then the issue is both depatrtments seek extra documents at various stages, a person who knows the system, knows this and has everything setup.

[ResearchWill]

Originally Posted by medias

In relation to the question over what happnens when Croatia join the EU, I got the following response from the department of Justice:


The legislation regarding Croatian citizens has not been finalised and we
do not know what the position will be with regards to Work Permits. Please
contact us later in the year around November or December when we should be able to answer your queries.

With the economy as it is I will bet they will try and exclude as long as possible, as with the recent countries.

[medias]

Originally Posted by ResearchWill

With the economy as it is I will bet they will try and exclude as long as possible, as with the recent countries.

Yes I would be under no illusion that this would change come the end of the year.


Well it sounds like the option should be something like apply for the Stamp 4 first and see how it goes, if good then she can get a job and work. If not then apply for the de-facto and/or work permit

[ResearchWill]

Originally Posted by medias

Yes I would be under no illusion that this would change come the end of the year.


Well it sounds like the option should be something like apply for the Stamp 4 first and see how it goes, if good then she can get a job and work. If not then apply for the de-facto and/or work permit

No de-facto is stamp 4, the basis for applying for stamp 4 is the defacto relationship. If not available then stamp 1 with a work permit.

[Jim2007]

Originally Posted by medias

Hi my girlfriend is Croatian and we want to move to Ireland (I'm Irish and working here). I understand that she does not need a visa but does need a work permit to work here.

She has a degree in economics and is currently working in Croatia (she is 31).

I believe a letter of intent of employment is required to apply for the work permit. I imagine it will be very difficult to apply for positions here when not in the country and then explain that you need the permit to the prospective employer?

Does anyone have any experience on the best way to achieve this? I understand that this will not be an issue from June 2013 as Croatia will join the EU but I would rather not have to wait that long :-)

Given the current situation within the EU, I would doubt that Croatia's entry into the EU will have any impact on the visa situation for several years to come... so I doubt that it will be of much use to you.

As for gaining a work permit on her own merit, again I would not hold out much hope on this front. In addition to everything else the employer must show that there is no EU or EA (e.g. Switzerland) person available to take up the position, this is usually done by advertising the job locally and abroad. However from some areas (Clerical/Admin/Finance/Banking being one) this is not enough as it is clearly recognized that there are more than sufficient applicants available within the EU to fill such positions. So unless your girlfriend has a PhD in economics and has a national or international reputation in this area, it is going to be a very hard sell.

I would expect your best chance is marriage or some kind of registered partnership agreement that would allow you to apply for a visa under the heading of family reunification.

One thing I would advise is to make sure that you do everything by the book, as any restrictions issued by the Irish authorities are EU/EA applicable. So the penalties can be very restricting!