[jaself]

At last... a Government Minister reveals what the Referendum is really about!

The "pooling of Soveriegnty".

This Treaty is NOT the "Stability Treaty", nor is it the "Fiscal Stability Treaty" as the Government and the Referendum Commission would have us believe, it is the "Treaty on Stability, Co-ordination and GOVERNANCE..."

This Treaty does not promise or guarantee stability - it is an aspiration, nothing more.

This Treaty cannot guarantee co-ordination.
Again an aspiration to be worked towards.

But this Treaty DOES put in place Governance. And not just in law, but it has to be embedded in our Constitution. When Minister Burton was questioned on the subject of Governance she referred to it as a "pooling of Sovereignty". This was not a mistake on her part because she went on to repeat the exact same phrase: a "pooling of Sovereignty".

So there you have it. The real purpose of this Treaty.
To "pool the Sovereignty" of the participating States.
In other words to centralise the Governing of these States.
And which body politic is at the centre of this?
The E.U.

So this is yet another, but significant, step towards a European State.

THAT is what you are voting for on Thursday!

Regards

J

[oscarBravo]

Originally Posted by jaself

And not just in law, but it has to be embedded in our Constitution.

That's simply, factually untrue. I'm not describing it as a lie only because I'm charitably assuming you may be unaware of its untruth, but some people who do know better have lied about it.

As for governance: when did the idea of governance become a bad thing?

Oh yes, when it was sold down the river in exchange for votes. How did that work out for us?

[PopeBuckfastXVI]

Duh! If there was no pooling of sovereignty there wouldn't be a referendum, how is this news to you!?

[Iwannahurl]

What is the EU but a pooling of sovereignty?

The nature and extent of that pooled sovereignty has evolved since we joined the EEC/Common Market in 1973.

Is there something inherently wrong with pooled sovereignty? If so, what?

[jaself]

So you WANT Ireland to become a little backwater State in the Federal Europe?

[Slozer]

pooled sovereignty is an oxymoron

[Iwannahurl]

Originally Posted by jaself

So you WANT Ireland to become a little backwater State in the Federal Europe?

The Ireland I grew up in was a backwater state. The EEC/EU has benefited us enormously, IMO.

Still a lot wrong with this country, but personally I blame that on our propensity for wanting to be closer to Boston than to Berlin.

[oscarBravo]

Originally Posted by Slozer

pooled sovereignty is an oxymoron

Given that an oxymoron is an apparent contradiction in terms, I guess it might well be - if you're determined to create a false dichotomy, and are completely inflexible in your definitions. Which is, basically, begging the question.

[Iwannahurl]

Originally Posted by Slozer

pooled sovereignty is an oxymoron

Interesting point, in terms of language.

Too simplistic, in terms of politics.

[jaself]

Originally Posted by Slozer

pooled sovereignty is an oxymoron

Gosh, a lesson in semantics. Thanks

[jaself]

Originally Posted by Iwannahurl

The Ireland I grew up in was a backwater state. The EEC/EU has benefited us enormously, IMO.

So we should once more doff our caps and say "Yes please"?

[meglome]

This might help.

Test from the Fiscal Compact

No provision of this Constitution invalidates laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by the State that are necessitated by the obligations of the State under that Treaty or prevents laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by bodies competent under that Treaty from having the force of law in the State.

Text from the Lisbon treaty.

No provision of this Constitution invalidates laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by the State that are necessitated by the obligations of membership of the European Union or prevents laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by the said European Union or institutions thereof or bodies competent under the treaties referred to in this section, from having the force of law in the State

The Lisbon treaty didn't cause us to lose our 'sovereignty' (no matter how many times the no camp claimed it) and the Lisbon treaty was not written into our constitution.

[jaself]

Wake up people.
The Emporer is not wearing any clothes and this is your chance to see clearly!

[Iwannahurl]

Originally Posted by jaself

So we should once more doff our caps and say "Yes please"?

Once more?

[meglome]

Originally Posted by jaself

Wake up people.
The Emporer is not wearing any clothes and this is your chance to see clearly!

Genuinely wondering... are you high?