[liammur]

Are FF genuine or are they leading us up the garden path once more?

I believe it was a no brainer that he would be expelled. For one reason, and one reason only, he is a liability to the party.


Now if FF are sincere, and they want to prove me wrong, expel Willie O Dea and any other minister of the time who challenged the tribunal e.g. O Dea talking about 'the tribunal investigating Ahern's communion money next'. This was a slant and an attempt to discredit the tribunal. There must be repercussions for such minisiters of that time if they are sincere.

[Dirk Gently]

wont happen because Martin was one of those ministers.

[zootroid]

The only interest FF know of is their own self interest. If the public interest happens to be similar it's a happy coincidence

[M cebee]

yes I agree the issue of ministers undermining the tribunal should be dealt with by ff

[Sir Oxman]

They have zero choice re-Ahern etc

I can't wait to hear Martin's answers to the damning finding that the cabinet he was a member of had systematically attacked and denigrated the tribunal for the purpose of bringing it to a halt.

Really, for anyone to believe that party will ever change (I don't), Martin and O'Dea must go and the other cabinet ministers that jumped ship with their rewards and took part in the attacks should be expelled also.

Calleary is setting out the FF stall on Primetime that no action will be taken against these reprobates.

[liammur]

Originally Posted by Dirk Gently

wont happen because Martin was one of those ministers.

Did Martin challenge the tribunal in a similar fashion to O Dea ?

[crafty dodger]

Watching prime Time and of course Calleary is trying to spread around the blame for all of the corruption that went on. It is the old we were all in it together argument....
Of course it is all in FFs self interest

[take everything]

Originally Posted by crafty dodger

Watching prime Time and of course Calleary is trying to spread around the blame for all of the corruption that went on. It is the old we were all in it together argument....
Of course it is all in FFs self interest

Rabbitte rebuffed it well.

[crafty dodger]

Where is Willy O'Dea when he is really needed?

[Nodin]

Originally Posted by liammur

Are FF genuine or are they leading us up the garden path once more?

I believe it was a no brainer that he would be expelled. For one reason, and one reason only, he is a liability to the party.


Now if FF are sincere, and they want to prove me wrong, expel Willie O Dea and any other minister of the time who challenged the tribunal e.g. O Dea talking about 'the tribunal investigating Ahern's communion money next'. This was a slant and an attempt to discredit the tribunal. There must be repercussions for such minisiters of that time if they are sincere.

They're sincerely acting in the parties best interests.

[Sierra Oscar]

Originally Posted by liammur

Now if FF are sincere, and they want to prove me wrong, expel Willie O Dea and any other minister of the time who challenged the tribunal e.g. O Dea talking about 'the tribunal investigating Ahern's communion money next'. This was a slant and an attempt to discredit the tribunal. There must be repercussions for such minisiters of that time if they are sincere.

I do believe that the party is acting in a sincere manner here, the whole organisation will be discussing the report at CDC level and I would imagine the vast majority of members will be calling for Ahern to lose his membership of the party. Ordinary members just feel absolutely let down by the actions of successive senior figures within the party, and want decisive action to make sure events like this are not repeated.

In regards the former ministers coming out and attacking the Tribunal - it just should not have happened, and said individuals do have a case to answer on this. However at the time there seemed to be an awful lot of questioning of the Tribunal, particularly within the media, which a lot of people bought - perhaps including the public which was demonstrated by the 07 election - alongside cabinet members themselves. In regards the cabinet, these were people that worked alongside Bertie Ahern and trusted him. However the fact of the matter is that the findings of the Tribunal have to be accepted and the Tribunal said that Bertie Ahern was lying. Also, we all need to learn now that this cult of the leader just has to end. Members of a political party, including senior leaders, should always be questioning and probing of the leadership of the party president. Maybe if that had occurred throughout the parties history then this would not have arisen in the first place. The likes of Flynn obviously thought they could just get away with it scott free - and for a long time they were right.

I know that myself, personally, bought into Bertie Ahern's account initially but as the Tribunal progressed his evidence was clearly all over the place. Some people may have been offering him the benefit of doubt, but now that the Tribunal has made its findings it is time to wake up and recognise that he was just simply down right lying in regards his accounts of events. The Tribunal may not have been able to make findings of corruption against Ahern, but we can all read between the lines.

[Kristopherus]

Sincerity and Fianna Fail were divorced back in C.J Haughey's days of the early 80's.

[Dirk Gently]

Originally Posted by liammur

Did Martin challenge the tribunal in a similar fashion to O Dea ?

He was part of the co-ordinated PR offensive from FF to discredit the tribunal. MM was one of a number including o'Dea who commented negatively to media at the time. It was obvious they were sent out in a deliberate and co-ordinated way to plant doubts about the legitimacy of the tribunal.

Martin is in the same boat as O'Dea which is why Bertie being expelled is the only action that will be taken.

[Dirk Gently]

Originally Posted by take everything

Rabbitte rebuffed it well.

He was saved by the ad break in the end though.

[tfitzgerald]

Originally Posted by Kristopherus

Sincerity and Fianna Fail were divorced back in C.J Haughey's days of the early 80's.

My wife thinks this is when FF started to go bad as well. I can't see the party doing too well under Martin either. And to answer the op's question FF always put the party first