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Landlord Question - Ending a Tenancy

  • 04-05-2020 7:31pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17


    Hello all,

    1. I have a contract with my tenants done via an agency ending in July

    2. Pre COVID-19 I was planning on renewing but now I am not too sure of the situation (lots of moving parts)

    As per here for ending a tenancy it states:

    "Not less than one year, but less than three years" I have to give 120 days notice. I think the tenant has been there for over a year.

    Question: Let's say I choose not to renew... Do I have to give them 120 days notice even if it extends beyond what it states in the contract? Does this rule override what it states in the contract?

    Thanks in advance for any help,

    K


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭overkill602


    A 1 year is over ruled by part 4/6 after 6 months they qualify for a term of 6 years, selling, moving a relative or major renovations are the only reasons for terminations
    Term leases over 5 months are useless if the tenant wants to stay.
    That is why many lettings are offered for 5 months + 1 months notice to avoid the 6 months and start of part 4


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17 eastwaller


    A 1 year is over ruled by part 4/6 after 6 months they qualify for a term of 6 years, selling, moving a relative or major renovations are the only reasons for terminations
    Term leases over 5 months are useless if the tenant wants to stay.
    That is why many lettings are offered for 5 months + 1 months notice to avoid the 6 months and start of part 4

    Apologies - I don't understand your reply. To reframe my question:

    1. The tenancy agreement ends on May 31st (as an example)
    2. Let's say tomorrow (5th of May) I give them notice that I want to end and they have been in it for a year.

    A: Under the act they have to leave on May 31st
    B: Under the act they have to leave on September 2, 2020 (May 5th + 120 days)
    C: Under the act they have to leave on September 28, 2020 (May 31st + 120 days)

    Is it A, B or C ?

    Thanks


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭LawBoy2018


    eastwaller wrote: »
    Apologies - I don't understand your reply. To reframe my question:

    1. The tenancy agreement ends on May 31st (as an example)
    2. Let's say tomorrow (5th of May) I give them notice that I want to end and they have been in it for a year.

    A: Under the act they have to leave on May 31st
    B: Under the act they have to leave on September 2, 2020 (May 5th + 120 days)
    C: Under the act they have to leave on September 28, 2020 (May 31st + 120 days)

    Is it A, B or C ?

    Thanks

    Imo it would be C. For what reason would you want them out? Do you have other tenants lined up, or do you want to keep it vacant?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,991 ✭✭✭Caranica


    LawBoy2018 wrote: »
    Imo it would be C. For what reason would you want them out? Do you have other tenants lined up, or do you want to keep it vacant?

    You need to spend more time studying the RTA. Based on the information provided, none of the options are legal.
    eastwaller wrote: »
    Apologies - I don't understand your reply. To reframe my question:

    1. The tenancy agreement ends on May 31st (as an example)
    2. Let's say tomorrow (5th of May) I give them notice that I want to end and they have been in it for a year.

    A: Under the act they have to leave on May 31st
    B: Under the act they have to leave on September 2, 2020 (May 5th + 120 days)
    C: Under the act they have to leave on September 28, 2020 (May 31st + 120 days)

    Is it A, B or C ?

    Thanks

    None of them. Firstly, due to the pandemic, you cannot currently issue a notice of termination, the law currently says until June but there are calls for that to be further extended.

    Secondly, your lease isn't worth the paper it's written on. The tenant has Part IV tenancy rights and can stay for up to six years with very limited scope for you to terminate their tenancy. Simply deciding that you don't want to renew does not meet the legal requirements.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17 eastwaller


    LawBoy2018 wrote: »
    Imo it would be C. For what reason would you want them out? Do you have other tenants lined up, or do you want to keep it vacant?

    I am just exploring my options to be honest and trying to see if I understand the laws correctly.

    I just assumed it existed as a contract between two people and it ended on the date it said in the agreement but I guess not - in this event the law supersedes contracts to protect the tenants I guess.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭LawBoy2018


    Caranica wrote: »
    You need to spend more time studying the RTA. Based on the information provided, none of the options are legal.



    None of them. Firstly, due to the pandemic, you cannot currently issue a notice of termination, the law currently says until June but there are calls for that to be further extended.

    Secondly, your lease isn't worth the paper it's written on. The tenant has Part IV tenancy rights and can stay for up to six years with very limited scope for you to terminate their tenancy. Simply deciding that you don't want to renew does not meet the legal requirements.

    My apologies, that's fantastic news! Lol I do indeed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17 eastwaller


    Caranica wrote: »
    You need to spend more time studying the RTA. Based on the information provided, none of the options are legal.



    None of them. Firstly, due to the pandemic, you cannot currently issue a notice of termination, the law currently says until June but there are calls for that to be further extended.

    Secondly, your lease isn't worth the paper it's written on. The tenant has Part IV tenancy rights and can stay for up to six years with very limited scope for you to terminate their tenancy. Simply deciding that you don't want to renew does not meet the legal requirements.

    Perfect. Thanks for clarifying further.


  • Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭pinktoe


    eastwaller wrote: »
    I am just exploring my options to be honest and trying to see if I understand the laws correctly.

    Just incase you are considering ending the tenancy so you can readvertise at a higher rate, you may want to read about RPZ depending on properties location.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17 eastwaller


    pinktoe wrote: »
    Just incase you are considering ending the tenancy so you can readvertise at a higher rate, you may want to read about RPZ depending on properties location.

    Thanks. That's not my intention. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭blowin3


    Sorry for butting in. Where does one stand when six months notice was given last January due to sale of property. The tenant was told to vacate the property by July can that still be enforced ?


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    blowin3 wrote: »
    Sorry for butting in. Where does one stand when six months notice was given last January due to sale of property. The tenant was told to vacate the property by July can that still be enforced ?

    You can't issue a notice to terminate the tenancy at the current time.
    You issued a notice to terminate- before the moratorium- hence, it is binding and enforceable. However, if the tenants decide not to move- for whatever reason- you cannot rely on your valid notice of termination to force them to- they temporarily have super-legislative rights that trump the Residential Tenancies Act- and you temporarily have had a diminution of your rights.

    Assume they are leaving on time- but maintain a line of communication with them to ascertain their intentions- and don't try anything at all one way or the other, until such time as the additional rights granted to them under the pandemic legislation, have been rescinded.


  • Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭blowin3


    You can't issue a notice to terminate the tenancy at the current time.
    You issued a notice to terminate- before the moratorium- hence, it is binding and enforceable. However, if the tenants decide not to move- for whatever reason- you cannot rely on your valid notice of termination to force them to- they temporarily have super-legislative rights that trump the Residential Tenancies Act- and you temporarily have had a diminution of your rights.

    Assume they are leaving on time- but maintain a line of communication with them to ascertain their intentions- and don't try anything at all one way or the other, until such time as the additional rights granted to them under the pandemic legislation, have been rescinded.

    Thanks for the reply .
    I thought as much. They were served back in January but I do see if they decide to not move it will be a problem until this ban on evictions is lifted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 46 Lan Di


    blowin3 wrote: »
    Sorry for butting in. Where does one stand when six months notice was given last January due to sale of property. The tenant was told to vacate the property by July can that still be enforced ?

    Any notice enacted prior to the emergency is still valid.

    However the notice period is suspended during the emergency (currently 3 months but may be extended) so as it stands the tenants new move out date is Oct 31st 2020 (assuming notice issued on 31st of Jan).


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    LawBoy2018 wrote: »
    Imo it would be C. For what reason would you want them out? Do you have other tenants lined up, or do you want to keep it vacant?

    For an Fe-1 student, that is a terrible answer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭LawBoy2018


    For an Fe-1 student, that is a terrible answer.

    Lmao reach for the guillotine! I got 63% in my property FE1 fyi ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    LawBoy2018 wrote: »
    Lmao reach for the guillotine! I got 63% in my property FE1 fyi ;)

    Some solicitor you'll be if you ever qualify.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭LawBoy2018


    Some solicitor you'll be if you ever qualify.

    You're very kind! Thank you for the reassurance ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    LawBoy2018 wrote: »
    You're very kind! Thank you for the reassurance ;)

    You are welcome.


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