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Letting to a friend - Issues

  • 04-02-2019 4:09pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 7,544 ✭✭✭Hogzy


    So myself and my other half (OH) have bought a 2 bed apartment. We agreed to rent the spare room out for 12-18 months in order to fund some of the initial costs of owning our first home, as our savings were wiped out with the depost. We decided to allow my OH's friend (Friend) to move in for the first 3 months at a reduced rent (50% less than market value) because the spare room wasnt really ready for a lodger as it needed painting, a new bed needed to be bought and other stuff around the apartment needed fixing before we would feel comfortable letting it to a stranger and charging market rate for it. It also suited Friend as she was planning on emigrating so the short term let suited her too. Win Win situation.

    Alas it is now 7 months since Friend moved in and she has told us she has no intention of emigrating, to which we decided that we were going to up the rent to closer to market value the apartment is now in fairly good condition, she has a new bed, wardrobe unit etc and the place has been fully painted.

    Since the increase in rent things have taken a turn for the worse. She wasnt always the best in terms of cleaning up after herself but when it was meant to be a short term let and the fact the apartment was half under construction for the first few months we turned a blind eye to a certain degree of cleanliness. She is becoming quite hard to live with in that she is having random lads over the entire time (last week she had a guy call over 5 of the 7 nights) and she isnt discrete when having sex either which I find quite disturbing to be honest. She knows she can be heard when doing it and its extremely awkward when yer man is over, annoyingly my OH is away on a work trip this week so hasnt experienced the 5 out of 7 day sleep over. This is starting to get on my nerves as its quite disrespectful to myself and my OH in my opinion. There are other issues such as not cleaning dishes, being loud slamming doors at 2am, leaving laundry in the kitchen to dry almost indefinitely.

    This has been an issue for a while now but the sex things has made it a lot worse. My OH doesnt want to jeopordise their friendship but at the moment shes not experiencing the level of discomfort and disrespect that I am as shes away with work. My OH is looking forward to Friend leaving but doesnt want to kick her out so to speak as the Dublin market is an absolute nightmare.

    I feel like im walking a tightrope here as I want the Friend gone but dont want to jeopardise my OH and friends relationship but at the moment I dont feel comfortable in my own home, ESPECIALLY now that my OH is away with work and im stuck here with this sex freak for the next 2 weeks.

    Any recommendations?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,136 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Important to note, you are not letting to this person, they are a licensee and can be asked to leave at any time as they are not protected by the RTA.

    So your issue is a social one and not with the "tenancy". IMO.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,158 ✭✭✭frag420


    Hogzy wrote: »
    So myself and my other half (OH) have bought a 2 bed apartment. We agreed to rent the spare room out for 12-18 months in order to fund some of the initial costs of owning our first home, as our savings were wiped out with the depost. We decided to allow my OH's friend (Friend) to move in for the first 3 months at a reduced rent (50% less than market value) because the spare room wasnt really ready for a lodger as it needed painting, a new bed needed to be bought and other stuff around the apartment needed fixing before we would feel comfortable letting it to a stranger and charging market rate for it. It also suited Friend as she was planning on emigrating so the short term let suited her too. Win Win situation.

    Alas it is now 7 months since Friend moved in and she has told us she has no intention of emigrating, to which we decided that we were going to up the rent to closer to market value the apartment is now in fairly good condition, she has a new bed, wardrobe unit etc and the place has been fully painted.

    Since the increase in rent things have taken a turn for the worse. She wasnt always the best in terms of cleaning up after herself but when it was meant to be a short term let and the fact the apartment was half under construction for the first few months we turned a blind eye to a certain degree of cleanliness. She is becoming quite hard to live with in that she is having random lads over the entire time (last week she had a guy call over 5 of the 7 nights) and she isnt discrete when having sex either which I find quite disturbing to be honest. She knows she can be heard when doing it and its extremely awkward when yer man is over, annoyingly my OH is away on a work trip this week so hasnt experienced the 5 out of 7 day sleep over. This is starting to get on my nerves as its quite disrespectful to myself and my OH in my opinion. There are other issues such as not cleaning dishes, being loud slamming doors at 2am, leaving laundry in the kitchen to dry almost indefinitely.

    This has been an issue for a while now but the sex things has made it a lot worse. My OH doesnt want to jeopordise their friendship but at the moment shes not experiencing the level of discomfort and disrespect that I am as shes away with work. My OH is looking forward to Friend leaving but doesnt want to kick her out so to speak as the Dublin market is an absolute nightmare.

    I feel like im walking a tightrope here as I want the Friend gone but dont want to jeopardise my OH and friends relationship but at the moment I dont feel comfortable in my own home, ESPECIALLY now that my OH is away with work and im stuck here with this sex freak for the next 2 weeks.

    Any recommendations?


    Yes, kick her out!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,544 ✭✭✭Hogzy


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Important to note, you are not letting to this person, they are a licensee and can be asked to leave at any time as they are not protected by the RTA.

    So your issue is a social one and not with the "tenancy". IMO.

    So Personal Issues would be a better place to post you think?


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,835 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    As the person is a lodger you can get rid of them quite quickly on "reasonable" notice. No RTB interraction required.

    I would put my personal enjoyment of my own home above any other person and would give immediate notice to quit. Your OH is too soft. The lodger doesn't seem to care much about you both anyway.

    I do understand that the lettings market is quite difficult at the moment, but you are not a charity, it is your home. Enjoy it and evict this person. A friendship is not worth living uncomfortably at all.

    If you decide to re let the room, make sure you give a note of terms and conditions. I would not allow any lodger to have overnight guests. Yes, that's right. If they want to have relations with others they can do that in the other person's home. If they don't like the rules they can find somewhere else. Lesson learned.

    All the best.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,554 ✭✭✭✭Creamy Goodness


    Hogzy wrote: »
    So Personal Issues would be a better place to post you think?

    No, here’s the right place but Elm’s saying there’s very different rules if you were letting (tenant has rights) vs. Renting a room out (little to no rights). You don’t want to confuse the two.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,544 ✭✭✭Hogzy


    No, here’s the right place but Elm’s saying there’s very different rules if you were letting (tenant has rights) vs. Renting a room out (little to no rights). You don’t want to confuse the two.

    Yeah to be fair I get that. I suppose my question above is a social problem as opposed to a legal one. I know she has bugger all rights but im trying to avoid forcing my other half to have to jeopardise her friendship. It'll be her choice to make how she goes about this to a certain extent.

    We might just be better off kicking her out and saying we want to live alone and then in a few months time letting the room to a lodger.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    See will your OH compromise to the point of sitting with the lodger and laying out some ground rules as a final warning. Ball is in their court then. It'll be either that you get a decent lodger and the OH is happy or you get rid but it looks like you tried and the OH is less happy but can't complain.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭ Willow Large Tutu


    Just throw her out. She can't value your friendship that much if she's gonna treat you with such disrespect. You won't miss her


  • Registered Users Posts: 610 ✭✭✭JustMe,K


    Get rid of her while your OH is away. Makes it easy for your OH with the friend as the decision was taken while they were not in the country, and they are distanced from the decision. Incidentally, how does your OH feel about the friend still being there? Obviously the extra cash from having a lodger is handy to have but for me it would not be worth being uncomfortable in my own home.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭ Mya Unimportant Levee


    You do not say it in your post, so I have to assume you or your OH have spoken to the friend about the issues you have with her behaviour? If not, have a word to her first as she may not realise it (I doubt that though). Agree with your OH what to say before you BOTH confront the friend. I would not do it on your own.

    If you have spoken to the friend and she's still acting up, time to get her out. If your OH doesn't like that idea and does not agree with asking her to leave, then I'm afraid you have other issues to address first! :eek:

    You agreed three months and the friend is there seven months. You have been 'kind' enough and she's becoming a nightmare, get rid of the friend asap. If you want to be nice about it, give her 4 weeks notice but you really don't have to do that (according to the licensee rules). Life is far too short to put up with a BS housemate like that.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    So what you're saying is you have a sex mad female lodger in your house, and your missus is away?

    I've seen this movie. The lodgers friend comes over too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    How much do you need the money now? not looking for answer but you need to ask yourself.
    Really the best option is to kick her out and probably the sooner the better, even for the friendship better to kick her out now and try maintain the friendship than it all blowing up and friendship over.
    You could say you don't want to share at all going forward if you can afford it.
    You could then look at maybe an odd bit of Air BnBing to get a bit of money in without the commitment of full time lodger. You may not be comfortable with the idea of different kinda random guests mind.
    Ideally I would say never rent to friends but I can understand when you thought it was to be 3 months to go with it.
    Sadly there is no easy solution but you might be best to bite the bullet and end it sooner rather than later.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Hogzy wrote: »
    Since the increase in rent things have taken a turn for the worse.

    she is having random lads over the entire time (last week she had a guy call over 5 of the 7 nights)
    she isnt discrete when having sex either which I find quite disturbing to be honest
    She knows she can be heard when doing it

    annoyingly my OH is away on a work trip this week so hasnt experienced the 5 out of 7 day sleep over.
    There are other issues such as not cleaning dishes
    leaving laundry in the kitchen to dry almost indefinitely.

    My OH doesnt want to jeopordise their friendship
    I've edited your post a bit.

    When it comes down to it, she taking the piss when your OH isn't there. Did the the laundry & dishes issues exist before your OH went way?

    Perhaps bring in a rule that she can only have people staying overnight (past 11pm) 2 nights a week, due to her bringing lads over so much. The curfew would be so that she doesn't just have them over until late.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,484 ✭✭✭Andrew00


    If they’re having sex ask can u join in, that’s what i’d Do anyway


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    Andrew00 wrote: »
    If they’re having sex ask can u join in, that’s what i’d Do anyway

    Sure you would. I'd say you're mad at it the whole time.


    OP
    I have had people renting rooms before, and sometimes had to ask them go for one reason or another. It is awkward, but put on your big boy pants and get on with it. I think it should be you, rather than your wife, if she wants to keep that friendship.

    I wouldn't mention the sex or the plates, just say you want the room back, and it was supposed to get 3 months. Time is up.

    Out of curiosity, is she paying the new, higher rent?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭ArthurG


    At the risk of sounding harsh, you need to grow a pair. Your OH doesn't want to jeopardise her 'frienship' with this individual, when in fact it could have a more significant impact on her realtionship with you. Your lodger needs to go.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,708 ✭✭✭Xterminator


    Hi Op

    you have the legal right to ask your friend to leave, you can give notice and make up an excuse like your not renting out the room any more, it will be your home office etc.

    This does not resolve the issue of the habits of your lodger.

    So 1st up, you can hear her having sex. She is an adult and is entitled to this activity. If you can hear her a least part of the problem is soundproofing in your apartment. I don't know if she is being ridiculously loud, but assuming she is just being normal, then that implies she can hear you and your OH having sex too, and never complained. So i'd say that's your issue not hers. Buy earplugs, and ask your OH to set a house rule of no sleepovers during the weekdays when she gets back.

    not cleaning dishes? get a rota up.

    leaving clothes drying - house rules. Do you do it? if so, don't complain. If you don't then pop an airer on the balcony or in her room & ask her to dry only on the airer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭1874


    Hogzy wrote: »
    So Personal Issues would be a better place to post you think?


    As someone said, and no offence, man up, letting a room (licence) to anyone, especially a friend can be difficult, more so than someone you dont know. First off, you should have laid out ground rules, is this your house or theirs? even if you never said jot about it, you can do so at anytime, this person clearly does not give a toss about you or your partner.

    Id just say, no guests end of, unless they are mutual friends, as someone said, they want to carry out a relationship, do it elsewhere, you're sorting them out with a room at lower cost which you should rectify, that might help them move, dont pussy foot about it, just say no guests, rent is x from next month, clean your mess more or less as soon as its made, its one thing to let something soak in the sink to get baked in whatever out, but its another thing to treat it like a game of buckaroo where they see how much they can balance on the pile of dishes or how much more they can fit in the bin before it overflows.

    As the person is a lodger you can get rid of them quite quickly on "reasonable" notice. No RTB interraction required. I would put my personal enjoyment of my own home above any other person and would give immediate notice to quit. Your OH is too soft. The lodger doesn't seem to care much about you both anyway.

    I do understand that the lettings market is quite difficult at the moment, but you are not a charity, it is your home. Enjoy it and evict this person. A friendship is not worth living uncomfortably at all.

    If you decide to re let the room, make sure you give a note of terms and conditions. I would not allow any lodger to have overnight guests. Yes, that's right. If they want to have relations with others they can do that in the other person's home. If they don't like the rules they can find somewhere else. Lesson learned.

    All the best.


    I agree with most of what you say, but you can get rid of a guest immediately if you decide, it might be reasonable and fair to give them notice, but its not a requirement, Im not suggesting the OP should do otherwise, but if they turn around and and bring back a guest or have their own giests lounging about the place like some flop house, you can throw them all out on the spot if you so please.

    the_syco wrote: »
    I've edited your post a bit.

    When it comes down to it, she taking the piss when your OH isn't there. Did the the laundry & dishes issues exist before your OH went way?
    Perhaps bring in a rule that she can only have people staying overnight (past 11pm) 2 nights a week, due to her bringing lads over so much. The curfew would be so that she doesn't just have them over until late.
    Perhaps? just put the kybosh on it end of, no guests unless they are mutual friends and dont overdo it anyway. No need to make it complicated, the OP is in their home, dont need to then share that with out and out strangers if they dont want to, you dont know who the people are, might be nice, might not, either way, the OP did not consider this and now they need to put the foot down.

    Hi Op

    you have the legal right to ask your friend to leave, you can give notice and make up an excuse like your not renting out the room any more, it will be your home office etc.

    This does not resolve the issue of the habits of your lodger.

    So 1st up, you can hear her having sex. She is an adult and is entitled to this activity. If you can hear her a least part of the problem is soundproofing in your apartment. I don't know if she is being ridiculously loud, but assuming she is just being normal, then that implies she can hear you and your OH having sex too, and never complained. So i'd say that's your issue not hers. Buy earplugs, and ask your OH to set a house rule of no sleepovers during the weekdays when she gets back.

    not cleaning dishes? get a rota up.

    leaving clothes drying - house rules. Do you do it? if so, don't complain. If you don't then pop an airer on the balcony or in her room & ask her to dry only on the airer.


    Yes, entitled to have it anywhere but if the OP decides no guests, that'll be elsewhere, if the OP doesnt want strangers about the place then thats reasonable, might not have bothered the OP if the person was not bringing an ongoing queue of strangers to their house, they are taking the piss, even people in a house share might be put out if strangers were around all the time, this is the OPs home.
    As for setting up a rota, to clean their dishes?
    This person sounds like a user, lay down the law and up the rent, the longer you dont, the longer they avail of the advantages.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,168 ✭✭✭Ursus Horribilis


    Your OH's friendship with this woman is over. There's no way they can ever go back to being the friends they were before this all kicked off. If you use that as your starting point, it might clarify things.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭1874


    Dont let to friends in your own home, in a house share/rental is a different story.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,713 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    If her friend has no respect for your home or you then she isn't a friend worth hanging on to.

    Life is too short for this, tell her you need the apartment for yourselves and she will need to move on in X weeks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,131 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Hi Op

    you have the legal right to ask your friend to leave, you can give notice and make up an excuse like your not renting out the room any more, it will be your home office etc.

    This does not resolve the issue of the habits of your lodger.

    So 1st up, you can hear her having sex. She is an adult and is entitled to this activity. If you can hear her a least part of the problem is soundproofing in your apartment. I don't know if she is being ridiculously loud, but assuming she is just being normal, then that implies she can hear you and your OH having sex too, and never complained. So i'd say that's your issue not hers. Buy earplugs, and ask your OH to set a house rule of no sleepovers during the weekdays when she gets back.

    not cleaning dishes? get a rota up.

    leaving clothes drying - house rules. Do you do it? if so, don't complain. If you don't then pop an airer on the balcony or in her room & ask her to dry only on the airer.

    Op shouldn’t have to buy earl plugs to live in his own house.

    Just get rid of her.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,547 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Hogzy wrote: »
    My OH is looking forward to Friend leaving but doesnt want to kick her out so to speak as the Dublin market is an absolute nightmare.

    Winter is the best time to do it, because the backpacker hostels have vacancies. Worst case she can go there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭sheroman01


    You have to see this from OP's point of view. If he confronts Friend, then Friend will/might get annoyed with OP's gf. If the gf does it, then there's a potential fallout there. Could you say to Friend that you need to put up the rent a good bit more (above market value) so that it might be too expensive for her and she's forced to move out on her own terms?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    Gravelly wrote: »
    So what you're saying is you have a sex mad female lodger in your house, and your missus is away?

    I've seen this movie. The lodgers friend comes over too.

    Just make sure there is enough film in the camera to make a few sequels


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 66,760 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    This isn't AH. Posting standard needs to improve


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    Winter is the best time to do it, because the backpacker hostels have vacancies. Worst case she can go there.

    Anyway, she is probably aware of what the rental market is like and isn't acting accordingly. Or I wouldn't be surprised if she thinks she has tenant rights and can do whatever she likes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Someone mentioned Air BnB.
    That might be your way out to avoid any confrontation or ill feeling.
    Just say you are going that route.
    If after a period of time you decide to get a new full time licencee you can just say the Air BnB didn't work out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Tell her very casually but clearly that you have a new licensee moving in on *date (two weeks from that date) as discussed when she moved in and you’ve even checked around for her and Nofleashere Hostel has lots of empty beds right now and you wish her luck finding somewhere more permanent.
    She’ll probably text your wife crying that her evil husband is throwing her out so you’d bother better be on the same page....


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 612 ✭✭✭KevinCavan


    Give her a specific date to be out by, a month from now possibly, like March 6th.


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