What if you're wrong?

rozeboosje wrote: »

People got their knickers in a twist when I pointed out that Mathematics is a human invention, and try to refute that statement by pointing out that "the universe observes its rules too".

But the thing is you were implying that mathematics was a wholly human fiction when it is not. Mathematics is simply the language humans invented to describe certain relationships and regularities that are frequently observed in nature. They are explanations for reality that can be understood by us.

rozeboosje wrote: »

Now there's a question for Atheists and Agnostics to ponder!

Ha! No, I'm not leading into the usual Pascal's wager, nor am I interested in talking about how "rational" a belief in some "god" thing or other is.

What I am talking about is that you may be barking up the wrong tree by focusing on this rationality. That believers don't care one bit about how rational their beliefs are or not.

You focus on how reasonable it is to believe in a "god" or not, while the purpose of such a belief has nothing whatsoever to do with actual "truth".

What if I told you that the purpose of faith is social cohesion? That belief in something as absurd as a "god" or anything other that is supernatural is a measure of your investment in the group that you belong to. That, in fact, the more absurd the actual belief is, the more valuable it is. Ostentatious belief, in this sense, is like a peacock's tail, a completely useless appendix that serves no practical use and that to somebody observing it rationally might even appear to be deleterious to its possessor's mental health, but that is in fact a visible marker of a fitness to being a constructive member of the group.

If we as a society are going to move beyond religious belief it won't suffice to simply replace religious belief with "rationality" or "science". We need to create new "secular" fictions that can serve the purposes of social cohesion in a way that makes religion superfluous. If we don't do this, we leave a gap that cults, fringe ideologies and charlatans will be only too happy to fill with their mumbo jumbo.

Firstly, the world can never be rid of religion because it can never be rid of the human impulses behind it; Fear, Hatred, Anti-Intellectualism, Sadism, Masochism, Sexism. All the same really.


Religion is a part of all humans; the worst part. It is a fight against our own nature. Religion is bad. The Nazis built motorways, but their defining characteristics, the things which they were really about, were evil. What religion does well most social organisations do well; Tennis clubs, charities, rotary clubs etc.


But what really makes a religion? What is the necessary condition? An exclusive faith that trumps other sources of truth. You might say what is wrong with that when we have so many educated religious people, scientists, mathematicians, philosophers etc.? It's because it is an intellectual contradiction. To think scientifically about the rest of your life, but to leave your enquiring, rationalist self at the door of the church is so common because it is socially conditioned and culturally pervasive. The scientists, the mathematicians, the philosophers who all hold religious beliefs are engaged in compartmentalized thinking. (google it) Their religious belief perpetuates faith. It gives the "real believers" intellectual cover, many of whom involve extremists and Jihadists. There is nothing wrong with having faith, but it does involve a scary amount of doublethink and it can be dangerous.


It is dangerous because the "real believers" who are given intellectual cover by the intelligent, rational, more enlightened people of faith, are the ones who lobby our governments in the name of religion and attempt to force their beliefs on others. And governments are delighted to give in. Really, it's the moderates who are the greatest threat, the liberal apologists. It's why say Cameron and Blair support faith schools in Britain and a string of same such measures in Ireland.

It will never change and any hope there is of it changing relies ultimately on freedom of speech and expression and no limits or restrictions on it, at least not concerning religion.