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Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

  • 29-07-2014 07:59PM
    #1
    El Guapo!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,447 ✭✭✭✭


    Ok....having read through the last absolute mess of a thread it's been decided that the only option is to leave it closed and start fresh.
    Use this thread to discuss the conflict.

    If you want to discuss the topic, you must do so in a CIVIL manner.
    All the name calling, whataboutery, sly digs, and petty childish stuff has to stop now.

    If you have a problem with a post.......report it. Don't engage in a back and forth on the thread. It never ceases to amaze me that people will report trolls and then continue to argue with them on thread. It defeats the whole purpose. The same goes for anyone you may think is a re-reg. Report them. Don't call them out on thread.

    Any racist, xenophobic, trolling, or general nasty comments will not be tolerated in this thread. Zero tolerance will be taken with this. If you cross the line, you will be instantly thread-banned.

    Stay on topic and don't derail the thread with any other agendas you may have.

    **added note after discussion we will have no posts that include images of dead bodies. They can be used as a propaganda tool by both sides and its unneeded and unnecessary

    If you are unable to post a link, then make the post and add a note saying you have pm'd a mod.

    send me (danniemcq) a pm with the link and a link to the post and I will add it. instant pm link



    This is a fresh start to the topic so don't drag any arguments from the last thread into this thread. Draw a line under it and start afresh.


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Comments

  • #2
    AnonoBoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    *Deep Breath*


    I think it's bad what's happening.







    Ok. I'm out.


  • #3
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    "Israeli fire is also said to have damaged the Hamas TV and radio stations, three mosques, four factories and government buildings.

    Gaza's port was also destroyed, Palestinian security sources told the BBC, and two schools and a kindergarten were on fire after being hit.

    Among the 100 people killed on Tuesday were seven families, the Palestinian health ministry said."
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28539528

    Todays offensive.


  • #4
    The Diabolical Monocle
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭The Diabolical Monocle


    Lets look at how modern Israel was established.
    And then at the philosophical leanings of the Arab lands.

    Presently they seem a little pre-occupied with one another.
    ..... In a place just outside of (political) Europe.

    No real fundie hamas or colonial zionist goings on happening within the EU.


  • #5
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »
    Lets look at how modern Israel was established.
    And then at the philosophical leanings of the Arab lands.

    Presently they seem a little pre-occupied with one another.
    ..... In a place just outside of (political) Europe.

    No real fundie hamas or colonial zionist goings on happening within the EU.

    ?


  • #6
    brimal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,222 ✭✭✭brimal


    Good call OP, I don't think I could have looked at that previous thread title any longer.


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  • #7
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    More of a massacre of a captive population than a conflict. The fact that it's even described as a 'conflict' between 'Israel and Palestine' makes it sound as if it's a fair fight (the power of propaganda).

    The latest round of death and destruction is anything but a fair fight. It's a brutal occupation/colonisation of the West Bank and it's a vindictive siege/massacre of Gaza by a multi-billion dollar high-tech military.

    The Israelis want the West Bank and they'll have it - everything else is just a lie. The Israelis destroying and massacring the people of Gaza is a message to the people of the West Bank: 'If you guys try to resist our colonisation project - you're next'.


  • #8
    The Diabolical Monocle
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭The Diabolical Monocle


    Nodin wrote: »
    ?

    I mean these two lovely peoples, they dont really have much time on their hands, their time is spent on each other rather than any business/associating with Europe.


  • #9
    Herb Powell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,097 ✭✭✭Herb Powell


    Might as well lay out the usual justifications before anyone says them

    • "Palestine never existed as a nation"
    • "Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East"
    • "Hamas are hiding rockets in buildings"
    • "Hamas don't spend their money on protecting their citizens"
    • "Hamas want to kill all jews"
    • "Hamas fired rockets"
    • "Antisemitism"
    • "Are you denying Israel's right to exist?"
    • "Why is nobody saying anything about Syria/ISIS/etc?"

      Which all apparently, in their own way, give the go-ahead for the slaughter of civilians. Stay classy, IDF.


  • #10
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »
    I mean these two lovely peoples, they dont really have much time on their hands, their time is spent on each other rather than any business/associating with Europe.


    I'm still not quite getting it..........


  • #11
    user2011
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,071 ✭✭✭user2011


    The Israeli op has taken 44% of the Gaza strip by way of "a buffer zone" :rolleyes:

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/israel-takes-away-44-of-gaza-land-herds-gazans-into-remaining-area/5393825

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/28/as-israel-enforces-its-buffer-zone-gaza-shrinks-by-40-per-cent.html
    This narrow strip of land that used to be called “the Gaza Strip,” already one of the more densely populated places on earth, is growing dramatically smaller. The Israeli military, relentlessly and methodically, is driving people out of the three-kilometer (1.8 mile) buffer zone it says it needs to protect against Hamas rockets and tunnels. According to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, the buffer zone eats up about 44 percent of Gaza’s territory.

    What that means on the ground is scenes of extraordinary devastation in places like the Al Shajaya district approaching Gaza’s eastern frontier, and Beit Hanoun in the north. These were crowded neighborhoods less than three weeks ago. Now they have been literally depopulated, the residents joining more than 160,000 internally displaced people in refuges and makeshift shelters. Apartment blocks are fields of rubble, and as I move through this hostile landscape the phrase that keeps ringing in my head is “scorched earth.”

    More people being squeezed into an even smaller bit of land while it continues to get destroyed.


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  • #12
    Chance The Rapper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 494 ✭✭Chance The Rapper


    Does anyone know of any decent documentaries about the history of their conflicts before now?
    I'm a bit ignorant of the whole thing and would like to get educated.


  • #13
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Herb Powell wrote: »
    Might as well lay out the usual justifications before anyone says them

    • "Palestine never existed as a nation"
    • "Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East"
    • "Hamas are hiding rockets in buildings"
    • "Hamas don't spend their money on protecting their citizens"
    • "Hamas want to kill all jews"
    • "Hamas fired rockets"
    • "Antisemitism"
    • "Are you denying Israel's right to exist?"
    • "Why is nobody saying anything about Syria/ISIS/etc?"
    • The land was owned by Ottoman Landlords
    • Mufti was a Nazi
    • They greened the Desert
    • "Arabs" only arrived in the 1920's and 30's


  • #14
    Tail Docker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭Tail Docker


    Herb Powell wrote: »
    Might as well lay out the usual justifications before anyone says them

    • "Palestine never existed as a nation"
    • "Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East"
    • "Hamas are hiding rockets in buildings"
    • "Hamas don't spend their money on protecting their citizens"
    • "Hamas want to kill all jews"
    • "Hamas fired rockets"
    • "Antisemitism"
    • "Are you denying Israel's right to exist?"
    • "Why is nobody saying anything about Syria/ISIS/etc?"

      Which all apparently, in their own way, give the go-ahead for the slaughter of civilians. Stay classy, IDF.

    Don't forget the Tunnels of mass destruction, the ones up on top of apartment blocks.


  • #15
    Snake Plisken
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,453 ✭✭✭✭Snake Plisken


    @ Nodin just wondering why your considered the boards "Expert" on all things Islamic/palistinian , I've seen you referenced on another thread I think in the politics a poster seeking your knowledge. Not having a pop just interested why?


  • #16
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    I've never been very interested in this conflict because I thought each side was as bad as the other. But the actions of Israel over the past week are disgusting. Don't get me wrong, Hamas are up there with the blame game too. They are provoking the Israelis and hiding among civilians. They are scum. But the indiscriminate violence coming from Israel, the murder of so many children is just beyond any kind of justification. Their actions are nothing short of war crimes.


  • #17
    recylingbin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,001 ✭✭✭recylingbin


    I can't understand what Israel have against a dip made from cooked, mashed chickpeas blended with tahini, olive oil, lemon juice, salt and garlic?
    I think it's delicious myself.


  • #18
    35cent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 106 ✭✭35cent


    Chance The Rapper wrote: »
    Does anyone know of any decent documentaries about the history of their conflicts before now?
    I'm a bit ignorant of the whole thing and would like to get educated.

    Perhaps the Ross Kemp episodes may be adequate but it's mainly about what it's like to live in Gaza and Israel now. It goes into the history a bit but you may want to look elsewhere for a more in-depth look.
    But I'm not an expert on this either so my advice may be poor.


  • #19
    Tail Docker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭Tail Docker


    It is well too, to bear in Mind Bloody Sunday. That's our own experience, well one of, where a military force here in Ireland opened fire on civilians.

    We still rightly decry this action to this day, call for further enquiries, it is condemned by all right minded people and a stain on peoples memories. A dark, dark day for Ireland.

    Now, imagine the Paras had used artillery, rockets, naval bombardment, and kept it up for day after day after day.

    As they say, how would that make you feel?


  • #20
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,839 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    With regards to bombing of the power station -

    Will this affect the information we have been receiving out of Gaza? Will people lose ability to charge their laptops, phones, etc?

    Even more important, will the hospitals run out of generator electricity?

    Sorry if these seem like dumb questions but i'm concerned that the civilians are facing isolation and that we may soon hear less of their suffering.


  • #21
    Too Tough To Die
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭Too Tough To Die


    What's happening is evil. It sickens me that our world leaders are not publicly condemning Israel's actions.


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  • #22
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Snake Plisken wrote: »
    @ Nodin just wondering why your considered the boards "Expert" on all things Islamic/palistinian , I've seen you referenced on another thread I think in the politics a poster seeking your knowledge. Not having a pop just interested why?


    No idea tbh. I don't speak either Arabic or Hebrew, and I'm certainly not an "expert" on Islam.


  • #23
    opinionated3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭opinionated3


    Snake Plisken wrote: »
    @ Nodin just wondering why your considered the boards "Expert" on all things Islamic/palistinian , I've seen you referenced on another thread I think in the politics a poster seeking your knowledge. Not having a pop just interested why?

    I'd actually like to know too. Again. ... Not to have a go at nodin but just for my own interest. .


  • #24
    Highflyer13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 954 ✭✭✭Highflyer13


    Chance The Rapper wrote: »
    Does anyone know of any decent documentaries about the history of their conflicts before now?
    I'm a bit ignorant of the whole thing and would like to get educated.

    Occupation 101 explains the history of the conflict very well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr9CIGeePXU&feature=youtube_gdata_player


  • #25
    Tasden
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,166 ✭✭✭Tasden


    Highflyer13 wrote: »
    Occupation 101 explains the history of the conflict very well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr9CIGeePXU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

    Was gonna recommend this too


  • #26
    Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo


    We could have a pray to Jesus asking him to get the Muslim and Jew gods to become friends again and stop the fighting.

    That, or get international pressure put on the US to force both sides into peace talks.


  • #27
    Highflyer13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 954 ✭✭✭Highflyer13


    Chance The Rapper wrote: »
    Does anyone know of any decent documentaries about the history of their conflicts before now?
    I'm a bit ignorant of the whole thing and would like to get educated.

    Occupation 101 explains the history or the conflict very well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr9CIGeePXU&feature=youtube_gdata_player


  • #28
    P_1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    I have to say that the treatment of Israelis who are objecting to what's going on in Gaza is frankly disgusting to see in a supposed liberal democracy.


  • #29
    Davarus Walrus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭Davarus Walrus


    What should the Israeli's do? How do they defend their country? What's objective defense and what is war?

    Why are the Israeli's doing this? If they wanted to wipe Gaza out they could have carried it out in a couple of days.

    Israel is doing pretty well for itself these days in the IT industry. Still not exactly at Irish levels, but doing loads of R&D. Why are they jeopardising this?

    What does Hamas want to achieve? What's happening in the West Bank at the moment?

    Where are Egypt and Jordan in all this?


  • #30
    brimal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,222 ✭✭✭brimal


    P_1 wrote: »
    I have to say that the treatment of Israelis who are objecting to what's going on in Gaza is frankly disgusting to see in a supposed liberal democracy.

    What treatment? I've seen loads of anti-war protests in Tel Aviv with no problems.


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  • #31
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,610 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Israel claim that they give 3-5 minutes 'warning' (knock-on-the-roof) for people to vacate their homes before shelling.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs5jNoCeOBA

    3-5 minutes? :rolleyes:

    Murderous scumbags

    Edit: It's been pointed out that the above video may have been edited, so I edited my post too

    My opinion remains unchanged =p


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