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U-21 Hurling Championship 2014

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13567…13

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    #62
    mickaleen
    Registered Users Posts: 240 ✭✭mickaleen


    They'll be all doing well to beat the Limerick minor team.....seen em there two years ago at under 16's and they are a savage physical side. Alot of the guys from last year are there again plus a few more. Should be an excellent minor championship.


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    #63
    Twiceasnice97
    Registered Users Posts: 268 ✭✭Twiceasnice97


    pmy.murphy wrote: »
    Im someone who would like to think is very awarre of the goings on at underage level in the county. What I can tell you is yes we cant keep producing what we had but if you saw the standard of that u21 team we had tonight you would see that at underage level there is something seriouly wrong fundamentally and something has got to change for us we have to act. We have taken our eye off the ball big time and are well behind everyone else. For a Kilkenny team to be beaten by that much in our own yard at that should not be happening. We werent even competitive. I know we have no god given right to be winning but jesus a county as proud as we are should at least not be getting put to the sword like that. Its embarassing

    We have had bad underage teams in the past but none this bad. The lack of skill and tactical awareness on show from a kilkenny team tonight was so alarming I can only even name 2 decent performers in the whole team. This u21 was awful plain and simple.

    Our Minors on the other hand are much better than what we saw against Dublin. Honestly I do not know what happened that day but this is a highly rated kilkenny minor team and I do expect them to come on strong again and be there or thereabouts at the business end of the championship but all that aside there is a problem for us at underage level, a huge problem at that. Our county board has got to stand up and be counted now and get the finger out

    I would agree with you that I think kilkenny minors might be a bit better than they showed v dublin. With the schools finalists, the home venue and a bit of overconfidence combining with a bad evening and dublin blowing them out of the water fast you could see how it would happen but 3 points is incredible all the same.
    The 2010 minors have not developed as you would have expected but time is still a bit on their side.
    A real issue might be patience from supporters who are used to nothing only winning and how they cope with defeat over the next few seasons.


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    #64
    Fireball07
    Registered Users Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭Fireball07


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Alot of hurling to be done yet. No doubt Clare are a super team and are doing trojan work at underage but i think its still reasonably open at this stage. Limerick havent been good at u21 the last two years despite having a relatively strong team - a good few of whom won munster medals in 2011 and won schools medals with Ard Scoil Ris

    Looking at Limerick's U-21 performances in recent years, you'd definitely have to question the coaching/management. Some fantastic players there, but we've had a couple of non-performances on the day (when the very same players would put in big performances at senior level), and then last night, it wasn't quite a non-performance, but it was below what was expected. Clare weren't at their best but still strolled home really.

    The sooner we get Paul Kinnerk involved with Limerick hurling the better. And people of his ilk.


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    #65
    GrandSoftDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 743 ✭✭✭GrandSoftDay


    Fireball07 wrote: »
    Looking at Limerick's U-21 performances in recent years, you'd definitely have to question the coaching/management. Some fantastic players there, but we've had a couple of non-performances on the day (when the very same players would put in big performances at senior level), and then last night, it wasn't quite a non-performance, but it was below what was expected. Clare weren't at their best but still strolled home really.

    The sooner we get Paul Kinnerk involved with Limerick hurling the better. And people of his ilk.

    Do you think Kinnerk would go? His parents are both Clare people to the best of my knowledge and he's teaching in Shannon so it might no be as straight forward a decision as you would think.


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    #66
    pmy.murphy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭pmy.murphy


    Twiceasnice97 wrote: »
    I would agree with you that I think kilkenny minors might be a bit better than they showed v dublin. With the schools finalists, the home venue and a bit of overconfidence combining with a bad evening and dublin blowing them out of the water fast you could see how it would happen but 3 points is incredible all the same.
    The 2010 minors have not developed as you would have expected but time is still a bit on their side.
    A real issue might be patience from supporters who are used to nothing only winning and how they cope with defeat over the next few seasons.

    3 points is incredibile I couldnt believe it myself and only 1 was from play but because of the schools final, the panel only had 2 training session together before the game so that lack of togethrness combined with the awful weather conditions and a general lack of hurling and training could not have helped. They didnt play as a unit and another thing about Dublin was that they were by far the more physical team and with the weather conditions that day, thats what won the day for Dublin to be honest along with their sharper minds and sharper hurling. But yes 3 points would still have you scratching your head despite all those factors. Those U21s last night, many of them will not get a chance again thats for sure but more worrying was the fact that most of that team came from Junior and Intermediate Clubs. 4 lads starting last night came from the one junior club who have have lost the last 2 junior county finals at that. In comparison to the likes of Wexford and Clare, Westmeath, most of their key players have been playing Senior intercounty hurling. Big difference


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    #67
    Fireball07
    Registered Users Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭Fireball07


    GrandSoftDay wrote: »
    Do you think Kinnerk would go? His parents are both Clare people to the best of my knowledge and he's teaching in Shannon so it might no be as straight forward a decision as you would think.

    I don't think he'd leave before his time in Clare, but some day. I mean they gave him his chance, he'd never have been given a chance in Limerick because he wouldn't have a big hurling background. But he's definitely the type of person you want training your young players.


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    #68
    Fireball07
    Registered Users Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭Fireball07


    I'm just wondering if anyone knows whether there's any recourse the referee can take against teams who don't come out onto the pitch on time?


    I mention it here, because Clare took the absolute piss last night, they were out a good 10 mins after Limerick for the 2nd half.

    Now, obviously the referee could award the game to Limerick, but no one wants to see that, and he was never going to do it at half-time. But still, is there anything he can do bar say "hurry on". He can't really book a player, there's not one person at fault, could he sanction the manager? Or just report it to the county board? It's a rare enough thing, but I'm not sure it should be allowed either. If teams are supposed to come out after 15 minutes, they should come out after 15 minutes.


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    #69
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    KevIRL wrote: »
    I love this championship, last of the true knockout championships and has served up some brilliant games over the past few years. Have a major issue with Galway getting a a bye to the All Ireland semi final though and Antrim with an effective bye. Both should be in Leinster at all levels

    Why not do what they should have done years ago with the senior championship, and did years ago with the intermediate championship? For under 21 create a third province, " Connacht-Ulster" with a cup and medals for the champions. You would have Galway, Antrim, Down, Derry, maybe occasionally Armagh, Roscommon , Mayo. Bring London into it too. Let the champions play a semi-final against Munster and Leinster champions in alternate years.


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    #70
    Fireball07
    Registered Users Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭Fireball07


    KevIRL wrote: »
    I love this championship, last of the true knockout championships and has served up some brilliant games over the past few years. Have a major issue with Galway getting a a bye to the All Ireland semi final though and Antrim with an effective bye. Both should be in Leinster at all levels

    I do agree that the pure knockout thing often makes it a great spectacle... but it can be harsh on players. I mean I know the Limerick panel have been training like crazy since January, I'd say as much as the senior team. But now they're out- 6 months of training, 1 game and they're gone. Could be 7 months for 1 game for Tipp/Cork/Waterford.


    Obviously they know that when they start out, it's a big commitment, but it's not like the old knockout Championship, there's no league or anything... just a few challenge games and then the Championship.


    I'm not saying they should change it, I don't think they should. But it is a huge commitment. Especially when you're drawn against a team like Clare who are very very good. You can understand why some of them were in tears after.... to commit like that, you have got to believe you are going to win, and to under-perform is gutting.


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    #71
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    KevIRL wrote: »
    I love this championship, last of the true knockout championships and has served up some brilliant games over the past few years. Have a major issue with Galway getting a a bye to the All Ireland semi final though and Antrim with an effective bye. Both should be in Leinster at all levels

    Why not do what they should have done years ago with the senior championship, and did years ago with the intermediate championship? For under 21 create a third province, " Connacht-Ulster" with a cup and medals for the champions. You would have Galway, Antrim, Down, Derry, maybe occasionally Armagh, Roscommon , Mayo. Bring London into it too. Let the champions play a semi-final against Munster and Leinster champions in alternate years.


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    #72
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    feargale wrote: »
    Why not do what they should have done years ago with the senior championship, and did years ago with the intermediate championship? For under 21 create a third province, " Connacht-Ulster" with a cup and medals for the champions. You would have Galway, Antrim, Down, Derry, maybe occasionally Armagh, Roscommon , Mayo. Bring London into it too. Let the champions play a semi-final against Munster and Leinster champions in alternate years.


    Galway would píss it most years to be honest apart from the odd Antrim surge on average every 10 years (or am i being too generous)


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    #73
    mickmackey1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,288 ✭✭✭mickmackey1


    Fireball07 wrote: »
    I'm just wondering if anyone knows whether there's any recourse the referee can take against teams who don't come out onto the pitch on time?

    I mention it here, because Clare took the absolute piss last night, they were out a good 10 mins after Limerick for the 2nd half.

    Now, obviously the referee could award the game to Limerick, but no one wants to see that, and he was never going to do it at half-time. But still, is there anything he can do bar say "hurry on". He can't really book a player, there's not one person at fault, could he sanction the manager? Or just report it to the county board? It's a rare enough thing, but I'm not sure it should be allowed either. If teams are supposed to come out after 15 minutes, they should come out after 15 minutes.

    No doubt Clare co board will be slapped with a token fine and nothing more... baffles me too, they're the best team in the country, no need for that kind of malarkey.


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    #74
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    mickmackey1 wrote: »
    No doubt Clare co board will be slapped with a token fine and nothing more... baffles me too, they're the best team in the country, no need for that kind of malarkey.


    Tipp tend to do it under O'Shea at Senior level to my despair and to be honest i wish they wouldnt because it only serves to get up the Ref's back


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    #75
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Galway would píss it most years to be honest apart from the odd Antrim surge on average every 10 years (or am i being too generous)

    Would Galway differ greatly from Kilkenny in Leinster? No, I don't think you're being too generous to Antrim. It's at least better than Galway walking into a semi-final, and they might set a standard for the others.


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    #76
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    feargale wrote: »
    Would Galway differ greatly from Kilkenny in Leinster? No, I don't think you're being too generous to Antrim. It's at least better than Galway walking into a semi-final, and they might set a standard for the others.


    I see your rationale alright but sometimes the only thing worse than a bye is a one sided contest. Do you not think Galway would tank those Ulster teams? Maybe over time things would change but i doubt they would


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    #77
    Twiceasnice97
    Registered Users Posts: 268 ✭✭Twiceasnice97


    pmy.murphy wrote: »
    3 points is incredibile I couldnt believe it myself and only 1 was from play but because of the schools final, the panel only had 2 training session together before the game so that lack of togethrness combined with the awful weather conditions and a general lack of hurling and training could not have helped. They didnt play as a unit and another thing about Dublin was that they were by far the more physical team and with the weather conditions that day, thats what won the day for Dublin to be honest along with their sharper minds and sharper hurling. But yes 3 points would still have you scratching your head despite all those factors. Those U21s last night, many of them will not get a chance again thats for sure but more worrying was the fact that most of that team came from Junior and Intermediate Clubs. 4 lads starting last night came from the one junior club who have have lost the last 2 junior county finals at that. In comparison to the likes of Wexford and Clare, Westmeath, most of their key players have been playing Senior intercounty hurling. Big difference

    Cody might have to bite the bullet with some of his fringe players on the senior panel from say 27 to 33 or whatever and get rid of some late 20`s lads to make space for the best four or five 21s to try to get them up to speed as regards the requirements for ic hurling


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    #78
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I see your rationale alright but sometimes the only thing worse than a bye is a one sided contest. Do you not think Galway would tank those Ulster teams? Maybe over time things would change but i doubt they would

    Give it a try, I say.


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    #79
    John from ennis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 47 ✭John from ennis


    I shared a car on the way to a munster hurling game 3 or 4 years ago and this fella is well connected and he informed me that there's an official at games and when a mentor steps onto the field when he shouldn't the county board is fined.
    this game is munster ccouncils responsibility and you can be sure they will fine the county for this delaying tactic.


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    #80
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    pmy.murphy wrote: »
    more worrying was the fact that most of that team came from Junior and Intermediate Clubs. 4 lads starting last night came from the one junior club who have have lost the last 2 junior county finals at that.

    What happened the players from the senior clubs?


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    #81
    savannahkat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭savannahkat


    feargale wrote: »
    What happened the players from the senior clubs?

    You can only assume they were not deemed to be good enough and maybe they were not.


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    #82
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    feargale wrote: »
    Give it a try, I say.


    Yeah id agree perhaps worth a try. Ill admit that Galway playing two games and winning an all Ireland is a poor structure


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    #83
    pmy.murphy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭pmy.murphy


    Twiceasnice97 wrote: »
    Cody might have to bite the bullet with some of his fringe players on the senior panel from say 27 to 33 or whatever and get rid of some late 20`s lads to make space for the best four or five 21s to try to get them up to speed as regards the requirements for ic hurling

    To be honest with you I dont think were in a position that we could pick out was 4 or 5 lads on that team good enough or have the potential to be good enough. Maybe 1 or 2 of the strongest performers last night plus the keeper but thats about it, theres no one else there near good enough that would better what we have on the Senior Panel or even come on par with them. Like our strongest outfield performer last night is technically a keeper and has trained with the Senior team as a goalkeeper even at that theres many who would have question marks over whether he has what it takes to make it outfield at senior level but out of last nights evidence he is the most likely I would say but again no guarantees likewise with our full back and captain who didnt play minor and seems to be a bit of a late bloomer, he dealt well with Conor McDonald but its hard to know if he has what it takes to make it either. Those two were our best performers on the night


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    #84
    pmy.murphy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭pmy.murphy


    feargale wrote: »
    What happened the players from the senior clubs?

    To be honest with you their just simply not good enough at Underage Level. There was 3 lads off the Senior County Champions on the Panel one starting on the team and the other 2 came on. Conor O Shea was the lad starting and Chris Bolger and Ciaran Prendergast came on. O Shea and Bolger didnt start for Clara last year all season as they won the Senior Championship. I will breakdown the structure of the panel. 4 lads on the starting team were from Senior clubs including the keeper while out of the rest of the starting team 6 lads were from Junior Clubs including 4 from the same Junior Club starting and 5 from Intermediate Clubs and out of the whole 32 man panel 13 from Senior clubs including 4 on the extended panel, 5 on the subs and 4 starting.


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    #85
    citykat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭citykat


    Twiceasnice97 wrote: »
    Cody might have to bite the bullet with some of his fringe players on the senior panel from say 27 to 33 or whatever and get rid of some late 20`s lads to make space for the best four or five 21s to try to get them up to speed as regards the requirements for ic hurling

    That's not Cody's style. You have to earn your spot on the panel. Unless they up the commitment on/off the field in a big way, they can forget about it.


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    #86
    donnem33
    Registered Users Posts: 482 ✭✭donnem33


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I see your rationale alright but sometimes the only thing worse than a bye is a one sided contest. Do you not think Galway would tank those Ulster teams? Maybe over time things would change but i doubt they would

    I completely agree. Thats why the Connacht Championship was scraped. It would serve neither Galway or the other Ulster counties any good.

    The only fair system available where all teams are treated equally is an open draw!


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    #87
    spacetrap
    Registered Users Posts: 59 ✭✭spacetrap


    Fireball07 wrote: »
    I'm just wondering if anyone knows whether there's any recourse the referee can take against teams who don't come out onto the pitch on time?


    I mention it here, because Clare took the absolute piss last night, they were out a good 10 mins after Limerick for the 2nd half.

    Now, obviously the referee could award the game to Limerick, but no one wants to see that, and he was never going to do it at half-time. But still, is there anything he can do bar say "hurry on". He can't really book a player, there's not one person at fault, could he sanction the manager? Or just report it to the county board? It's a rare enough thing, but I'm not sure it should be allowed either. If teams are supposed to come out after 15 minutes, they should come out after 15 minutes.

    What about Mark Foley he spent almost as much time on the pitch as the teams.It was inexperience on Careys side they should have waited to come out longer at half time.There was enough in the crowd roaring at the ref to throw in the ball as well. It will stand to Carey in the long run.


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    #88
    savannahkat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭savannahkat


    2012 under 21 final Clare 2-17 Kilkenny 2-11. That was probably the best of the Clare under 21 sides and it was no mean display from Kilkenny to get that close to one of the outstanding under 21 teams of the recent past. 2013 some very dicey refereeing and a howler of a mistake with the last puck of the game by the Kilkenny keeper dropping the ball into his own net to give Wexford a one point win deprived Kilkenny of a second appearance in the under 21 final. Prior to the minor game against Dublin the majority of the minor team had played in the senior colleges final two weeks earlier with the two schools involved being within a few hundred yards of each other the tension the hype and the fervor had them drained with no time for recovery before going out to face Dublin. This year was a blip and nothing more than that. The record does not show or point to any demise within Kilkenny.


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    #89
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I see your rationale alright but sometimes the only thing worse than a bye is a one sided contest. Do you not think Galway would tank those Ulster teams? Maybe over time things would change but i doubt they would

    Correction: I wasn't 100% accurate about the Intermediate championship. What used to happen in the 60s and 70s was: Connacht champions played Ulster champions in a quarterfiinal, no cup or medals. The winners then played a semifinal against the Munster or Leinster finalists in alternate years. However I think you get the idea.


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    #90
    Twiceasnice97
    Registered Users Posts: 268 ✭✭Twiceasnice97


    GrandSoftDay wrote: »
    Do you think Kinnerk would go? His parents are both Clare people to the best of my knowledge and he's teaching in Shannon so it might no be as straight forward a decision as you would think.
    It`s not a simple thing of him going back to limerick at all for kinnerk. he has as much if not more clare connections as he does limerick


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    #91
    Twiceasnice97
    Registered Users Posts: 268 ✭✭Twiceasnice97


    donnem33 wrote: »
    I completely agree. Thats why the Connacht Championship was scraped. It would serve neither Galway or the other Ulster counties any good.

    The only fair system available where all teams are treated equally is an open draw!

    this stuff comes up endlessly and is utterly tiresome.

    if you create an open draw you remove the munster final and the leinster final.
    if that was the case clare would be celebrating and dublin and limerick would be doing what exactly?


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