DART capacity reconfiguration

flyingsnail · 09-09-2013 10:40am #1

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0909/473128-iarnrod-eireann/

I find these two lines interesting.

Iarnród Éireann is to increase its use of two-carriage DART trains at off-peak times to reduce fuel costs.

“The fleet will be reconfigured to form 45 four-carriage trains and 18 three-carriage trains, allowing greater flexibility in train size as result by combining train sets together.”

EB_2013 · 09-09-2013 10:51am

And they'll still be putting their fares up I bet. I'm paying more and more each time for an even worse service.

Cookie_Monster · 09-09-2013 10:52am

“The fleet will be reconfigured to form 45 four-carriage trains and 18 three-carriage trains, allowing greater flexibility in train size as result by combining train sets together.”

From my reading of the article this refers to the ICR fleet, not the DART

flyingsnail · 09-09-2013 10:53am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

From my reading of the article this refers to the ICR fleet, not the DART

yup, somehow my brain missed that part

dublinman1990 · 09-09-2013 11:24am

I was on one of those Two carriage DART trains going from Seapoint to Sandymount just before 9:50am this morning for the first time in about 18 years.

The train was going from Bray to Howth. The train wasn't completely full but there were a small amount of people that were standing all way the through.

And I missed a four carriage DART this morning just to get on it. If I thought were that IE were not made of money I thought this situation would have ended for good but alas something has to give.

How are IE going to join up the DART trains when the peak-time services happen today & every other subsequent weekday?

I assume that they might do this method when the EMU's are joined up or split at the terminus.

bikeman1 · 09-09-2013 11:35am

The question is, what will be the extra staff cost be to have the trains short formed, shunted, re formed and short formed again every day? This was always the problem in the past.

So DART will be utilising the original LHB sets a lot more while leaving the newer more expensive 8600s lying idle apart from peak services?

Personally it doesnt bother me. I know on the 2 car DARTs in the past, they felt a lot safer than a vast 6 or 8 car train. Also the drivers seemed to like them, having a 2 car train on a 8 car platform is a dream to drive!

Ernest · 09-09-2013 11:38am

Reducing DART to 2 carriage train sets outside peak hour is a really dreadful idea!. Its bad enough that some peak-hour DART trains currently have only 4 carriages instead of 6 leading to very unpleasant overcrowding, but to reduce off-peak trains to only 2 carriages would make even off-peak travel a very nasty experience indeed with every seat crammed with people and others having to stand for journeys.

That's not to mention the fact that people would have to run along the platform to find the part where the train is actually located, since train drivers at the moment insist on bringing the train to the furthest front end of platforms irrespective of where passengers enter of leave that platform.

Personally speaking I would probably just go back to using the car instead of public transport if Irish Rail go ahead with this plan.

LXFlyer · 09-09-2013 11:49am

Ernest wrote: »

Reducing DART to 2 carriage train sets outside peak hour is a really dreadful idea!. Its bad enough that some peak-hour DART trains currently have only 4 carriages instead of 6 leading to very unpleasant overcrowding, but to reduce off-peak trains to only 2 carriages would make even off-peak travel a very nasty experience indeed with every seat crammed with people and others having to stand for journeys.

That's not to mention the fact that people would have to run along the platform to find the part where the train is actually located, since train drivers at the moment insist on bringing the train to the furthest front end of platforms irrespective of where passengers enter of leave that platform.

Personally speaking I would probably just go back to using the car instead of public transport if Irish Rail go ahead with this plan.

Why is it such a bad idea? Loads are low enough to allow for it.

If it saves money and preserves the service, then why not?

Platform signs are now in place to indicate where 2, 3 and 4 car trains stop at.

They have already gone ahead with it - it started today!

murphaph · 09-09-2013 11:49am

bikeman1 wrote: »

Personally it doesnt bother me. I know on the 2 car DARTs in the past, they felt a lot safer than a vast 6 or 8 car train. Also the drivers seemed to like them, having a 2 car train on a 8 car platform is a dream to drive!

Shouldn't be any easier than a full formation really. The short train should stop at a particular point on the platform (either front or rear) and this should be displayed to the waiting passengers on the PIS so they know where to stand and wait. At least that's how short trains are run here in Berlin.

loyatemu · 09-09-2013 11:51am

lxflyer wrote: »

Why is it such a bad idea? Loads are low enough to allow for it.

If it saves money and preserves the service, then why not?

Platform signs are now in place to indicate where 2, 3 and 4 car trains stop at.

They have already gone ahead with it - it started today!

those signs have been up for months, but I did notice at Pearse today a customer information notice stating they are now in use (about time too, it'll be interesting to see if the drivers actually stop at the signs).

bikeman1 · 09-09-2013 12:02pm

Ernest wrote: »

Reducing DART to 2 carriage train sets outside peak hour is a really dreadful idea!. Its bad enough that some peak-hour DART trains currently have only 4 carriages instead of 6 leading to very unpleasant overcrowding, but to reduce off-peak trains to only 2 carriages would make even off-peak travel a very nasty experience indeed with every seat crammed with people and others having to stand for journeys.

That's not to mention the fact that people would have to run along the platform to find the part where the train is actually located, since train drivers at the moment insist on bringing the train to the furthest front end of platforms irrespective of where passengers enter of leave that platform.

Personally speaking I would probably just go back to using the car instead of public transport if Irish Rail go ahead with this plan.

People manage on the luas very well with short trams. I never understand the notion that people on a city transit service that people need two seats for every one person.

2 car darts will definitely manage on a vast amount of off peak services.

I would much prefer the company to run 2 car trains off peak and maintain the 15 minute frequency than cut services and run 6 car DARTs.

EB_2013 · 09-09-2013 12:04pm

So will the drivers be allowed to go any faster now with shorter carriages. I use the Connolly to Howth route regularly and the speed the carriages travel between Clontarf Rd and Connolly takes the biscuit. I'd be quicker walking.

LXFlyer · 09-09-2013 12:11pm

The length of a train has nothing to do with the speed.

That is dictated by the line speed and permanent/temporary speed restrictions that the engineers decide are appropriate.

LXFlyer · 09-09-2013 12:43pm

http://www.irishrail.ie/cat_news.jsp?i=4918&p=116&n=237

Changes in train fleet utilisation to save energy costs

09 September 2013

Iarnród Éireann Irish Rail is to implement new energy saving fleet utilisation initiatives to generate fuel savings, which will reduce fuel and maintenance costs by €3.2 million per annum.

The range of actions begin this week, focusing on train size for off-peak DART services.

Currently, 65% of total daily DART passengers travel in the four hours of either morning or evening peak, with the remaining 35% travelling across the remaining 14 hours of travel. In place of longer trains used currently, the company will increase the usage of 2-carriage DARTs at off-peak times from mid-morning to mid-afternoon, and after 7pm, to eliminate unnecessary energy usage and reduce maintenance costs, while continuing existing service frequency to customers.

This approach also allows the flexibility for capacity to be increased on off-peak trains at times of higher demand, such as for major events. Furthermore, the company are continuing to monitor peak train sizes and will increase capacity on one peak service in response to demand, the 16.40hrs Bray to Malahide DART, from 6 to 8 carriages.

For Intercity services, Iarnród Éireann is to reconfigure the Intercity railcar fleet. Currently, the 234 carriages in the fleet are configured to form 48 three-carriage trains and 15 six-carriage trains. This has lead to capacity shortages on some services and oversupply on others. The fleet will be reconfigured to form 45 four-carriage trains and 18 three-carriage trains, allowing greater flexibility in train size, with 3, 4, 6, 7, 8 and 9 carriage Intercity trains possible as result by combining train sets together. These changes will be implemented on a phased basis by year end.

As well as savings in fuel and maintenance costs, the new fleet configuration will ensure train size can be targeted to meet demand, and increase train size and seat numbers on services which have experienced high numbers travelling.

The measures are the latest in a range of initiatives introduced by Iarnród Éireann to reduce energy consumption, yielding environmental and cost benefits. Since 2007, energy consumption – the vast majority of which is for diesel and electricity to power trains – has reduced by over one-third in Iarnród Éireann, through actions including:

- New trains incorporating improved energy efficiency

- Automatic shutdown of train engines to reduce idling

- Reduction in DART power supply voltage and competitive tendering of electricity supply

- Extension of regenerative braking on the DART

- More efficient DART train software

- Reduced train sizes where demand has decreased

- Implementation of improved lighting, heating and fan controls in depots

- Changes to lighting in station car parks

- Temperature and lighting control systems in buildings to prevent wastage

In total, energy usage in Megawatt hours has reduced from 793,400 in 2007 to 526,800 in 2012, a reduction of almost 34%.

The company’s energy bills were €16 million lower in 2012 than they would have been had these measures not been implemented.

dowlingm · 09-09-2013 2:00pm

Post DASH2 it should be possible to run more of the short trains, increasing the attractiveness of the service. Will need a few more drivers though. Will they be there when the time comes Mr Franks? :rolleyes:

TheBandicoot · 09-09-2013 2:01pm

I have no problem with these operational changes and they make sense to me , I just think it's sad that due to terrible planning over decades a city the size of Dublin can only fill 2 carriages on a high quality heavy rail route.

TheBandicoot · 09-09-2013 2:03pm

dowlingm wrote: »

Post DASH2 it should be possible to run more of the short trains, increasing the attractiveness of the service. Will need a few more drivers though. Will they be there when the time comes Mr Franks? :rolleyes:

TBH I would consider quitting my job and becoming a DART driver if they opened up applications and had similar employment conditions to today. I could always return to my current field via freelancing or contracting if I needed to.

TheBandicoot · 09-09-2013 3:41pm

One of the two car sets in action today, entering Pearse southbound.

Tube · 09-09-2013 4:30pm

While at the same time they're running a lot of 8 carriage trains off-peak on the Maynooth line.

dfx- · 09-09-2013 4:44pm

I'm looking forward to the next game at the Aviva with two carriage sets - and you know it will happen. Like when the 46A or the 16A was operated by a WV - two horrendous experiences and so was the peak hours WV on the 130.

TheBandicoot · 09-09-2013 4:47pm

If you're basing that on a train you took to the city centre about the time you made that post, remember that an 8 car train then will be returning back to Maynooth jam packed. I take the off peak Maynooth trains off peak all the time, they are consistently 4car 29000s or 3car 22000s. Only a couple(the 1542 Maynooth-Pearse is one) are 8 cars, and there are good reasons for it.

The Dart has a proper terminus at Bray with extensive sidings and a driver base, as well as a convenient optional midpoint terminus at Connolly, so they can be more flexible in train size. The Maynooth line has no such benefit.

LXFlyer · 09-09-2013 5:03pm

dfx- wrote: »

I'm looking forward to the next game at the Aviva with two carriage sets - and you know it will happen. Like when the 46A or the 16A was operated by a WV - two horrendous experiences and so was the peak hours WV on the 130.

Don't be ridiculous - they're not going to have 2-car trains out when there is a big match/event on.

At least have a bit of common sense.

end of the road · 09-09-2013 8:26pm

bikeman1 wrote: »

I would much prefer the company to run 2 car trains off peak and maintain the 15 minute frequency than cut services and run 6 car DARTs.

yet as a rosslare line user i wouldn't mind seeing a service cut around the time my train travels the line, hopefully the one before so we could have a straight run through, not going to happen i know.

end of the road · 09-09-2013 8:29pm

dowlingm wrote: »

Post DASH2 it should be possible to run more of the short trains, increasing the attractiveness of the service. Will need a few more drivers though. Will they be there when the time comes Mr Franks?

will you even be there when the time comes mr franks? or will you have took your pentian and said ta ta to ireland

end of the road · 09-09-2013 8:39pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Don't be ridiculous - they're not going to have 2-car trains out when there is a big match/event on.

oh i don't know, this is the same company who thinks operating 29s to bellfast when an enterprise fails is a good idea, or who thought operating horid rickity 27/28s on the rosslare line for years was a good idea or who thinks subjecting people to a 29 on the odd service to rosslare or sligo is exceptable

Cookie_Monster · 09-09-2013 10:12pm

In total, energy usage in Megawatt hours has reduced from 793,400 in 2007 to 526,800 in 2012, a reduction of almost 34%.

The company’s energy bills were €16 million lower in 2012 than they would have been had these measures not been implemented.

That's pretty impressive regardless of anything else I have to say.

Losty Dublin · 10-09-2013 12:41am

end of the road wrote: »

oh i don't know, this is the same company who thinks operating 29s to bellfast when an enterprise fails is a good idea, or who thought operating horid rickity 27/28s on the rosslare line for years was a good idea or who thinks subjecting people to a 29 on the odd service to rosslare or sligo is exceptable

The only Irish Rail trains that can run to Belfast are the 3 Enterprise sets and a select 29000 and 22000 class railcars which are fitted with TPWS; this is mandatory under UK Law. Should an Enterprise set be unable to run then it's run them or don't run a service at all. Similarly, some NIR DMU's are fitted with CAWS to allow them run to Dublin if required for substitution services and specials.

As regards DMU's on the Sligo/Rosslare lines, it's an open secret that political interference saw to it that they took on services on these lines in lieu of cascaded mainline stock from mainline links.

end of the road · 10-09-2013 12:58am

Losty Dublin wrote: »

The only Irish Rail trains that can run to Belfast are the 3 Enterprise sets and a select 29000 and 22000 class railcars which are fitted with TPWS; this is mandatory under UK Law. Should an Enterprise set be unable to run then it's run them or don't run a service at all. Similarly, some NIR DMU's are fitted with CAWS to allow them run to Dublin if required for substitution services and specials.

maybe if the roomers that mark 4 stock could be stored are true they could have the necessary equipment fitted?

Losty Dublin wrote: »

As regards DMU's on the Sligo/Rosslare lines, it's an open secret that political interference saw to it that they took on services on these lines in lieu of cascaded mainline stock from mainline links.

yeah, i know, and it makes me furious, those involved should be brought to both wexford and sligo to be flogged for subjecting us to those horrid things instead of comfortable cascaded stock

LXFlyer · 10-09-2013 4:12pm

end of the road wrote: »

will you even be there when the time comes mr franks? or will you have took your pentian and said ta ta to ireland

Jeepers what has the man done to you?

He's barely in the job and already you're effectively complaining about him?

ted1 · 10-09-2013 4:19pm

TheBandicoot wrote: »

I have no problem with these operational changes and they make sense to me , I just think it's sad that due to terrible planning over decades a city the size of Dublin can only fill 2 carriages on a high quality heavy rail route.

i live in killiney about 5 minutes walk from the DART station. If i'm going to Town i genreally end up heading up to cherrywood to get a luas. this is abotu 20 minutes walk.

The reasons being

1.) there way more frequent, No matter when I go i'll only have to wait max 7 minutes.

2.) Luas goes straight to St.Stephens Green. so cuts out the walk from Tara st or Pearse St.

Losty Dublin · 10-09-2013 4:26pm

ted1 wrote: »

i live in killiney about 5 minutes walk from the DART station. If i'm going to Town i genreally end up heading up to cherrywood to get a luas. this is abotu 20 minutes walk.

The reasons being

1.) there way more frequent, No matter when I go i'll only have to wait max 7 minutes.

2.) Luas goes straight to St.Stephens Green. so cuts out the walk from Tara st or Pearse St.

Which of course is an advantage if you want to go to St. Stephen's Green in the first place

DART capacity reconfiguration

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