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03-12-2012, 15:46   #1
HellFireClub
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The emergence of the extreme right in Ireland...

Hope this is the right forum for this, I'm posting it in Irish Economy as the motivation for what I've wandered across on the web (see below), appears to be primarily to do with jobs and employment opportunities, and the polices pertaining to entry to the state for access to the Irish labour market.

Anyway, over the weekend, I was doing some family tree research via Google and happened to wander across a few websites that I actually found to be alarming in terms of the clearly racist content and the extreme views openly stated by contributors:

http://www.nationalistireland.com/


Another organisation styling itself the DRM (Democratic Right Movement), their website is down but there are numerous youtube video clips promoting crazy policies to do with immigration control, etc.

It occurred to me after having had some time to digest all of this content that I discovered, that is it only a matter of time before someone connected with these ideologies carries out a Breivik type massacre in this country?

Last edited by HellFireClub; 03-12-2012 at 15:58.
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03-12-2012, 16:47   #2
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unlikely , ireland has pretty stringent policys when it comes to access to firearms , norway does not
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03-12-2012, 19:10   #3
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.....

Another organisation styling itself the DRM (Democratic Right Movement), their website is down but there are numerous youtube video clips promoting crazy policies to do with immigration control, etc.

......
They split - a major achievement considering how few of them there were in the 1st place. Don't know who this current shower are, but expect much typing and little else.

The video is funny though....

Last edited by Nodin; 03-12-2012 at 19:26.
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03-12-2012, 22:46   #4
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I think Ireland has an extremely conservative political landscape at the best of times. Our "centre" would be centre-right wing in most other countries imo (FG & FF) whereas our "left" is barely past centre (Labour) and our most extremist parties, such as SF are still ultra conservative in nature.

For example, we don't have a strong liberal vote in Ireland - a large party who would be in favor of blanket legalisation of abortion before 12 weeks (Pro choice - open to correction, but I think we are the last, if not one of the last EC countries not to have this legislation) and emergency abortion thereafter as a legal clarification. Nor do we have a party heavy lobbying on issues such as Gay Marriage or Same Sex adoption legislation. We don't have any progressive party on the removal of religion from state and having a strong sentiment towards social development issues such as stem cell research (coupled with our low corporation tax, a potential multi-billion euro European research hub could be based in Ireland). That among many other issues, I think we are extremely conservative on all sides of the spectrum.

Regarding the "Nationalist Movement", thankfully, as far as I am aware, no one has ever been elected to the Dail on the basis of an anti-diversity agenda. I can't see a party like that ever taking off here either, unlike in the UK where there is (imo) a much stronger anti-diversity, racist undertone. Much to do with the "British" way and their history. Make of that what you will.
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03-12-2012, 23:37   #5
tim_sims
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I think Ireland has an extremely conservative political landscape at the best of times. Our "centre" would be centre-right wing in most other countries imo (FG & FF) whereas our "left" is barely past centre (Labour) and our most extremist parties, such as SF are still ultra conservative in nature.

For example, we don't have a strong liberal vote in Ireland - a large party who would be in favor of blanket legalisation of abortion before 12 weeks (Pro choice - open to correction, but I think we are the last, if not one of the last EC countries not to have this legislation) and emergency abortion thereafter as a legal clarification. Nor do we have a party heavy lobbying on issues such as Gay Marriage or Same Sex adoption legislation. We don't have any progressive party on the removal of religion from state and having a strong sentiment towards social development issues such as stem cell research (coupled with our low corporation tax, a potential multi-billion euro European research hub could be based in Ireland). That among many other issues, I think we are extremely conservative on all sides of the spectrum.

Regarding the "Nationalist Movement", thankfully, as far as I am aware, no one has ever been elected to the Dail on the basis of an anti-diversity agenda. I can't see a party like that ever taking off here either, unlike in the UK where there is (imo) a much stronger anti-diversity, racist undertone. Much to do with the "British" way and their history. Make of that what you will.

our political landscape is a terminally centrist - idealogical free zone , their is no hard left or right with any serious support , ULA are a protest vote , you could not compare FG to the torys in the uk or the republicans in the usa , their all populist in one shape or form who rely on various interest groups to keep them affloat , me feinism rules in ireland
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04-12-2012, 00:02   #6
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Id see myself as right winged on the economic side so free trade non intervention by the state, privatisation etc but left wing when it comes to immigration, abortion gay marriage etc. Where ever that puts me I have no idea, but it becomes a pain in the arse when explaining to people that no Im not a Nick Griffin follower....anyhow rant over...

These people aren't going to go anywhere and I don't think we have anything to worry about. However as Ireland is for Freedom of Speech, we can't stop the likes of Nationalist Ireland and the DRM from voicing their opinions, Just like we cant stop the Socialist Party or ULA from voicing theirs.

I don't see them getting to much support. Whether they like it or not, Ireland is to reliant on the rest of the world for trade. As we learned the hard way, we're not the best at self sufficiency!

Id also query whether these guys would accept life saving medical treatment from a doctor who wasn't Irish?
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04-12-2012, 00:10   #7
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Ugh.
That's not what "nationalism" means, and these people are doing true nationalism as much of a disservice as communists who apply the mere 'socialist' label to themselves, thus discrediting the entire left wing with the communist label.
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04-12-2012, 00:33   #8
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but left wing when it comes to immigration, abortion gay marriage etc. Where ever that puts me I have no idea, but it becomes a pain in the arse when explaining to people that no Im not a Nick Griffin follower....anyhow rant over...
I think wanting open immigration may be a policy favoured by the economic Right/Libertarians as different to the conservative right, the economic Left may be in favour of better treatment of the poorer "working classes" but immigration can also have a negative effect on the groups they claim to represent by increasing competition and driving down wages*.

I actually think Ireland is rather more left wing in general than people think and in terms of social conservativism, its a bigger thing than just abortion or gay marriage (meaning that there's plenty of places that are as socially conservative or more so than Ireland with relaxed laws/attitudes to this issue)



* This is a very basic view and I'm sure there's arguments that immigration can increase economic growth therefore increasing conditions.
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04-12-2012, 02:52   #9
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Right, Just registered, lets see how long it takes to get banned.
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04-12-2012, 12:08   #10
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I spent ages watching videos on the website trying to work out some kind of an angle that might account for these extreme views. There is one video that does appear to show a kind of an anomaly on the face of it, (can't remember whether it was on the NationalistIreland website or the DRM series of videos on youtube, which does show evidence of non-EU workers being granted citizenship here, while at the same shows evidence of young Irish people emigrating for want of work. But the only thing it might suggest is that Irish people may still be unprepared to do certain jobs that non-EU workers will do, especially in the case of college graduates, they may feel that a job in Supermacs or Woodies is not what they studied hard for, whereas someone new in the country might not have these kind of issues with taking up a lower paid job. This is the only reason I can see for non-EU folks still coming to Ireland while at the same time Irish people are leaving in greater numbers all the time it would seem. I'll see if I can post up the video I saw.

In any event, it doesn't present any evidence of "they are coming in here and taking all our jobs". It does present evidence that maybe Irish people are leaving here in the pursuit of better jobs I think, when I say "better jobs" I mean jobs more suitable to someone who feels they have gone through the process of getting themselves qualified for a particular job, college degree, etc...

here's another website I came across, styling themselves the Irish Nationalist Brotherhood, this appears to be what emerged when the DRM closed down...

http://www.inbeire.com/
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04-12-2012, 12:16   #11
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It's actually laughable looking at the "dispute" that has emerged between these two associations. This all started out as the Direct Right Movement (DRM), where the two individuals who formed this group, fell out and went their own way.

The remnants of that dispute resulted in two organisations:

http://www.nationalistireland.com

http://www.inbeire.com

Then on the other side of the coin completely, you have a group on the left, opposing these two groups, calling itself AFA Ireland, (Anti Facsist Ireland), who monitor these two groups and other individuals who may step in and out of this political field from time to time:

http://afaireland.yolasite.com/news.php

It's all actually like something out of a Fr. Ted episode when you sit back and look at the characters involved!
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04-12-2012, 14:28   #12
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Originally Posted by Scortho View Post
These people aren't going to go anywhere and I don't think we have anything to worry about. However as Ireland is for Freedom of Speech, we can't stop the likes of Nationalist Ireland and the DRM from voicing their opinions, Just like we cant stop the Socialist Party or ULA from voicing theirs.
There is an horrible undertone of racism, derived from our lack of multiculturalism historically, which could be tapped into but I don't think these guys are capable of doing that. I am to the right when it comes to economics but I am more than happy to welcome anyone into this country. We need to break the chains of our monocultural past.

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Id also query whether these guys would accept life saving medical treatment from a doctor who wasn't Irish?
I heard an interview with one of these guys on late night radio a few weeks ago and the interviewer posed a similar question to that. The individual responded by saying that he would far prefer if it was an Irish doctor or white doctor but would take the medical care from the other doctor as a "last resort".

Last edited by COYW; 04-12-2012 at 14:38.
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04-12-2012, 14:51   #13
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lets hope afa keep them quite
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04-12-2012, 14:56   #14
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http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?t=13259


Very good thread on this, with some mre detail on the characters behind these fascist groups.
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07-12-2012, 12:10   #15
djpbarry
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...is it only a matter of time before someone connected with these ideologies carries out a Breivik type massacre in this country?
I don't think so. For example, the Immigration Control Platform have been around for ages and still haven't managed to drum up significant support.
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I can't see a party like that ever taking off here either, unlike in the UK where there is (imo) a much stronger anti-diversity, racist undertone.
I wouldn't agree with that at all. Sure, there are problems in the UK, many of them stemming from poor social planning post-WWII.

However, in my opinion, the bar for what is considered racist is much lower in Ireland than it is here. For example, I have encountered a number of people in Dublin (not a huge number, but significant) who will refuse to get in a taxi with a black driver - there's no way you'd get away with that in London. Furthermore, I personally have encountered racism on a disturbingly regular basis in Dublin (even though, bizarrely, I'm white and Irish - the individuals in question thought I "looked foreign"), but just the once so far in London.

I accept that all of the above is purely anecdotal, but the point is that racism most definitely exists in Ireland - it's no better or no worse than anywhere else and it's dangerous to pretend otherwise.
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