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18-09-2012, 13:21   #31
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Originally Posted by griffdaddy View Post
I'm not sure I see your point? Should we just let them do it then?
The point is that these don't really qualify as your run of the mill scumbags who are doing this because they couldn't be bothered getting a real job.

In most cases these are people who have nothing but a boat and sailing skills, but their waters have been devastated by a number of things including waste dumping by other countries, oil, and so forth. So they can't make a living from fishing.

So they've no other means of income and no education and see piracy as the only way of making a living, as well as being a form of retribution for the damage that other countries have done to their waters (they don't give a crap what country any ship is from).

The fact that piracy has produced very few casualities is evidence of this. If they were your normal scumbag criminals, they'd just board the boat, gun everyone down and throw them over.
That's not to say that the hostages are treated to breakfast in bed and a happy ending, but they're not typically tortured or otherwise treated very badly by the pirates.

The know the risks but they do it because they don't really have any other choice. So there's little deterrent in a show of strength without addressing the root cause of the problem.

Piracy is inherently risky, there's a reason why it had practically disappeared until the Somali pirates emerged; because nobody in their right mind would do it unless they had no other choice.
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18-09-2012, 13:23   #32
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Cant get image of Eric Cartman taking over the Somali pirates out of my head now
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18-09-2012, 13:24   #33
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No but deciding to just shoot at any boat on the sea just incase they're pirates isn't a good thing.
I'm not talking about opening fire on Stenaline ferries, I'm talking about preemptively shooting at boats that get too close to valuable cargo ships. There could be a rule that once they get within a certain range they are fair game. There could even be a warning shot fired first. (I suspect there probably already is)
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18-09-2012, 13:33   #34
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Rangers v pirates
Sky sports will have the rights to the away game for sure
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18-09-2012, 13:34   #35
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Originally Posted by griffdaddy View Post
I'm not talking about opening fire on Stenaline ferries, I'm talking about preemptively shooting at boats that get too close to valuable cargo ships. There could be a rule that once they get within a certain range they are fair game. There could even be a warning shot fired first. (I suspect there probably already is)
A sure way to kill some innocent fishermen or have your cargo ship RPG'ed by a panicking pirate.
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18-09-2012, 14:30   #36
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The point is that these don't really qualify as your run of the mill scumbags who are doing this because they couldn't be bothered getting a real job.

In most cases these are people who have nothing but a boat and sailing skills, but their waters have been devastated by a number of things including waste dumping by other countries, oil, and so forth. So they can't make a living from fishing.

So they've no other means of income and no education and see piracy as the only way of making a living, as well as being a form of retribution for the damage that other countries have done to their waters (they don't give a crap what country any ship is from).

The fact that piracy has produced very few casualities is evidence of this. If they were your normal scumbag criminals, they'd just board the boat, gun everyone down and throw them over.
That's not to say that the hostages are treated to breakfast in bed and a happy ending, but they're not typically tortured or otherwise treated very badly by the pirates.

The know the risks but they do it because they don't really have any other choice. So there's little deterrent in a show of strength without addressing the root cause of the problem.

Piracy is inherently risky, there's a reason why it had practically disappeared until the Somali pirates emerged; because nobody in their right mind would do it unless they had no other choice.
Although I take your point that they are desolate and are driven to piracy, it in no way mitigates what they are doing, and you can't take a half-arsed, softly-softly approach to something like this. Otherwise you're sending out a message that SOME piracy is ok but other piracy isn't. Whatever about trying to fix Somalia as a country, the open seas is not the place for that to happen, and stealing and kidnapping are the not right ways for that to happen.

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A sure way to kill some innocent fishermen or have your cargo ship RPG'ed by a panicking pirate.
Not really, I'm sure a safe enough system could be developed where eventually they'd realise not to come within a certain distance of the ship.
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18-09-2012, 14:35   #37
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How come they don't just arm the biggest / most valuable ships with rocket launchers and a trained soldier or two and blow the **** out of anything that comes near them?
I know....why not just nuke Somalia? That seems to be the solution to everything. Nuke Libya after an ambassador gets killed. Nuke Afghanistan. Nuke Yemen. David Cameron slags off Romney...nuke England.

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18-09-2012, 14:41   #38
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Maybe if they stopped illegally overfishing Somalia waters and illegally dumping toxic waste into these waters that kills of what's left of the fish stocks these former Somali fishermen turned pirate could go back to making a living with their nets rather than their guns.

But of course that would take rationality.
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18-09-2012, 14:41   #39
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I know....why not just nuke Somalia? That seems to be the solution to everything. Nuke Libya after an ambassador gets killed. Nuke Afghanistan. Nuke Yemen. David Cameron slags off Romney...nuke England.

WTF are you talking about? 'Attack someone in open water who is trying to rob all your shít or kidnap you and hold you hostage' is not the same as 'nuke a country.' There's nothing political in my sentiments whatsoever, I'd feel the same if they were Irish pirates.
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18-09-2012, 14:41   #40
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And how much is this going to cost Ireland?
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18-09-2012, 15:16   #41
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Originally Posted by griffdaddy View Post
WTF are you talking about? 'Attack someone in open water who is trying to rob all your shít or kidnap you and hold you hostage' is not the same as 'nuke a country.' There's nothing political in my sentiments whatsoever, I'd feel the same if they were Irish pirates.
Have you even questioned why these guys are pirates?
There's a reason for everything.
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18-09-2012, 15:24   #42
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Have you even questioned why these guys are pirates?
There's a reason for everything.
Ok, let's stop tackling crime and get to the root of everything.

Why is a rapist a rapist, a murderer a murderer, a junkie a junkie? Let's just let everyone get away with everything for a while and we'll sort out the root problem of everything. Unfortunately we don't live in a utopia and while I agree the Somalian problem needs to be addressed, I don't think taking a soft approach to piracy is in anyway the answer.
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18-09-2012, 16:06   #43
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Have you even questioned why these guys are pirates?
There's a reason for everything.
Cos they live in the worst hellmouth of a Country on God/Q from Star Trek's green / sandy coloured earth and that's how life is.

Doesn't mean they shouldnt be perforated with .50 cal when they start getting all cheeky.

Hard to understand how the Indo's story is so detailed and yet so wrong according to the DF. Maybe they performed those exercises in the course of normal Ranger training and somebody speculated on a mission.

A sea based mission seems a bit odd for them, you'd sorta feel any Navy big enough to deploy ships in the EUFOR would have a decent seaborne special service of their own.

I dont know whether Navy's still use them but a bunch of WWII e-boat type patrol vessels would be the ideal tool. Probably call them iBoats these days......
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18-09-2012, 18:58   #44
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I doubt Somalis will try their luck against highly trained Rangers.
The idiots have been known to attack honest-to-God warships which are painted haze gray and have lots of pointy things sticking out of them.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/04...-indian-ocean/

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Suspected Somali pirates fired on a U.S. Navy warship off East Africa early Thursday in what appeared to be a ransom-seeking attack on an American guided missile frigate, officials said.

The USS Nicholas returned fire on the pirate skiff, sinking it and confiscating a nearby mothership.
That's not the only Naval vessel they've tried to attack either, but certainly the most stupid.

Anyway, if they can't determing a frigate from an oil tanker, I don't think they'll be able to identify a cargo ship with Rangers aboard.

NTM
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