[twinytwo]

Originally Posted by later12

No room for special weighting?

That's bizarre.

If you're interviewing candidates to work as electricians, and one guy has electricians' qualifications, and the other is a burrito chef, you're obviously going to favour the first guy.

If a student is particularly talented in mathematics, or engineering, or languages, then that should be taken into account when trying to get the best possible candidates into the best courses.

On what planet does that not make sense?

Exactly in this day and age being fluent in a foreign language is probally more important than maths. Besides anyone that as done engineering etc in uni knows that the leaving cert Honours maths dosent touch uni maths.

[PieForPi]

Originally Posted by later12

No room for special weighting?

That's bizarre.

If you're interviewing candidates to work as electricians, and one guy has electricians' qualifications, and the other is a burrito chef, you're obviously going to favour the first guy.

If a student is particularly talented in mathematics, or engineering, or languages, then that should be taken into account when trying to get the best possible candidates into the best courses.

Our system can't accommodate that now and most likely won't for a long time to come, so we can talk about great "ifs" all day long but "ifs" is all they will remain for the time being.

You're also implying that there's flocks of brilliant mathematicians out there who can get bust an A out in higher maths no problem but suffer through a wishy washy subject like humanities and can't just beat the system that need special consideration taken for them. I don't believe this to be true.

[gara]

Where's the joy or incentive to do well if failure is treated just the same? Well done to those who worked hard to get what they want!

I'm glad people make a big deal about the Leaving Cert because formal education is a big deal -it has a huge impact on how you live the rest of your life and deserves to be taken seriously

[later12]

Originally Posted by PieForPi

You're also implying that there's flocks of brilliant mathematicians out there who can get bust an A out in higher maths no problem but suffer through a wishy washy subject like humanities and can't just beat the system that need special consideration taken for them. I don't believe this to be true.

Except I'm not. I'm just saying that people shouldn't be allowed to use their grades into the humanities as a pole vault to clear the entry requirements into scientific or mathematical programs.

I also cited vice versa examples for the humanities, where proficiency in science & maths is not critical or relevant.

[americano787]

In the USA, Our Education system is vastly superior to what you teach in Ireland. This is a fact.

[PieForPi]

Originally Posted by later12

Except I'm not. I'm just saying that people shouldn't be allowed to use their grades into the humanities as a pole vault to clear the entry requirements into scientific or mathematical programs.

I also cited vice versa examples for the humanities, where proficiency in science & maths is not critical or relevant.

Ah, but most of the courses you're talking about also have minimum grade and subject requirements also, thus negating those who can do super in things like humanities but do badly at maths.

[PieForPi]

Originally Posted by americano787

In the USA, Our Education system is vastly superior to what you teach in Ireland. This is a fact.

Yes, like the values of democracy http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1501510.html

[later12]

Originally Posted by PieForPi

Ah, but most of the courses you're talking about also have minimum grade and subject requirements also, thus negating those who can do super in things like humanities but do badly at maths.

Well the problem was never that there were people who were bad at maths getting into prestigious maths courses. And no it doesn't negate the anomaly, it alleviates it. That's not really good enough. There isn't a course in the country that requires you to have an A in a related school subject, for example. The most a lot of them require is an HB3, and even they are in the minority. As most people would agree, there is a massive difference between getting an HB3 in Mathematics, and a HA1.

So it doesn't negate it at all.

But more importantly, it still means students use courses like English and History to tip ahead of other candidates in more scientific fields (& vice versa).

Take the example again of maths in TCD. Points are 565.

The student who scores an A1 in Maths and Applied Maths, but gets Higher level Bs in everything else might not get in.

On the other hand, the student who gets a Higher B3 in Maths, and gets As in History, Art, English, Business, & Home Economics walks in without any problem.

Does that seem fair?

[Red21]

Originally Posted by PieForPi

That sounds quite stupid, frankly.

Yeah, what would the french know about education with their no pressure approach, they should come over here and we'd show them a thing or two. When educating young people the best method is pile um all in together and make the whole thing into one big terribly important competition thats the key to success. If you make the competition so important, a life and death situation, you'll sqeeze maximum results out of students even those who are least suited to the system will be forced to pick something up.
Leaving cert points = Happiness in later life, so work hard folks.

[Taco Chips]

Originally Posted by later12

Take the example again of maths in TCD. Points are 565.

The student who scores an A1 in Maths and Applied Maths, but gets Higher level Bs in everything else might not get in.

On the other hand, the student who gets a Higher B3 in Maths, and gets As in History, Art, English, Business, & Home Economics walks in without any problem.

Does that seem fair?

But in real life, that doesn't happen. Applicants that have a B3 in Maths and then a distribution of As in other subjects like that aren't putting Maths in TCD on their CAO. I did TP in TCD last year which is a joint degree with the maths department and I don't think anyone in Maths or TP had less than a HB2 in LC Maths. People that are gifted at Maths in that way and making the effort to pursue it at higher level are overwhelmingly choosing science based courses where it is a key component anyway.

I'm glad that they highlight the high achievers. We live in a meritocratic society and at the end of the day, these students obtained outstanding results and demonstrated a lot of intelligence, hard work and ability. Why shouldn't they be praised? And the LC results are something that affect 50,000+ people at the same time every year in this country. So why wouldn't there be a spotlight on them? It's huge news.

[Mully_2011]

It will be interesting to see how many of these students drop out. The education system should try and focus a student into what they are interested in not "Ah Shure Ill do Science cos Jimmy down the road is doing it".I done a Biotech course and had no interest in it lasted two years before I dropped out but lucky I'm in a course I love now.

I know a girl who got 600 points and dropped out within a few months.

Do something you want to do not something your parents think you should be doing or "Ah shure I'll go to X and study Y because Jimmys doing it".

[later12]

Originally Posted by Taco Chips

But in real life, that doesn't happen. Applicants that have a B3 in Maths and then a distribution of As in other subjects like that aren't putting Maths in TCD on their CAO. I did TP in TCD last year which is a joint degree with the maths department and I don't think anyone in Maths or TP had less than a HB2 in LC Maths.

Okay...that doesn't really matter though.

I am not talking about Maths in TCD in particular, I'm using it as an illustration of how there is a design flaw in the CAO in terms of getting the most gifted students in a specific discipline into the best courses allied to that discipline.

In short, it rewards the all-rounder, not necessarily the outstanding student in a specific area.

[Owen_S]

Originally Posted by up for anything

Not really any more - someone who is exceptional at Maths has a 25 point lead over someone who is exceptional at English.

Seems fair, it's not as if the brightest English students in the country quoting Patrick Kavanagh and Shakespeare are going to lead this country out of the energy crisis.

[sock puppet]

Originally Posted by up for anything

Not really any more - someone who is exceptional at Maths has a 25 point lead over someone who is exceptional at English.

Not really. It's much easier to score highly in English than it is in Maths.

edit: obviously that's not true in any objective sense, but Irish students do better in English than Maths

[randylonghorn]

Originally Posted by Brutal Deluxe

What would be more impressive: the person who memorized six books or the person memorized 9 books?

The person who understood one of them?

Originally Posted by Owen_S

Seems fair, it's not as if the brightest English students in the country quoting Patrick Kavanagh and Shakespeare are going to lead this country out of the energy crisis.

Nah, they're more likely to organise Arts Festivals and generate tourist revenue.