[urajoke]

Originally Posted by Turbine

This pension scheme was created before the privatisation of Aer Lingus and involved them, the DAA, and SR Technics. SR Technics shut down their Dublin operation and walked away from their pension commitments, and they're still a profitable company operating in Ireland. So why should Aer Lingus have to cover the pension shortfall left by SRT and essentially pay for the pensions of DAA employees who have better pension entitlements than new Aer Lingus employees? (At least that's my understanding of it)

Obviously it will ALL come out in the wash as to what Aer lingus will have to cover but they are responsible for their own employees the DAA for theirs etc.

Hopefully for everyone involved it will mean the splitting up of the pension scheme, a crazy one to have initiated.

[coylemj]

Originally Posted by urajoke

Obviously it will ALL come out in the wash as to what Aer lingus will have to cover but they are responsible for their own employees the DAA for theirs etc.

Hopefully for everyone involved it will mean the splitting up of the pension scheme, a crazy one to have initiated.

Didn't the Aer Lingus flotation involve the new PLC divorcing itself from the amalgamated aviation pension scheme and didn't the AL employees accept shares as part of the IPO under those conditions i.e. here's some shares and welcome to the brave new world of a DC pension?

Can't see how they figure they can come back to the trough now.

[Dacian]

Originally Posted by coylemj

Didn't the Aer Lingus flotation involve the new PLC divorcing itself from the amalgamated aviation pension scheme and didn't the AL employees accept shares as part of the IPO under those conditions i.e. here's some shares and welcome to the brave new world of a DC pension?

Can't see how they figure they can come back to the trough now.

Er....No.

The IPO disn't have any discussion about the pensions funds.

The current archaic pension set-up is a legacy of the 1950's/60's when Aer Rianta/Aer Lingus/Aerlinte Eireainn were all state companies.

No-one has had the nerve to attempt to separate/revise/end the outdated scheme since these companies became private or sold off (in the case of Team AerLingus/FLS/SRT Technics)

[coylemj]

Originally Posted by Dacian

Er....No.

The IPO disn't have any discussion about the pensions funds.

The current archaic pension set-up is a legacy of the 1950's/60's when Aer Rianta/Aer Lingus/Aerlinte Eireainn were all state companies.

No-one has had the nerve to attempt to separate/revise/end the outdated scheme since these companies became private or sold off (in the case of Team AerLingus/FLS/SRT Technics)

That seems to be the situation right enough, there was no formal divorce. However AL appears to have taken the view that the plc does not have any legal obligation to make up any shortfall.

CEO rules out Aer Lingus pension fund top-up

At the time of its flotation in 2006, the airline made a once-off payment into the pension scheme of about €100 million and stated that its firm legal advice was that it did not have any obligation to make additional payments into the scheme in the event of a default.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...312523193.html

[urajoke]

Considering the amount of staff involved it wouldn't actually take that much money over a short number of years to plug the gap with company involvement and the best pension fund managers should be able to regain the
Loses by 2020 and secure the pension.

This I imagine will go to the LC and they will decide all parties will have to pay.

[coylemj]

The problem isn't really that the money hasn't been invested wisely, it's the way pension funds are audited and stress tested.

The stress test for a pension fund in Ireland is based on the following scenario....

If the fund was wound up today, would there be enough money to provide annuities for existing pensioners and sufficient cash left to cover the accumulated benefits of deferred pensioners and serving members.

The scenario of buying annuities for existing pensioners is the problem, it says that the fund has to be raided and the trustees buy annuities to cover the pensions of retired members but with annuity rates currently at rock bottom, those annuities will cost a lot more than they would have a few years ago, hence almost all pension funds in Ireland are in deficit as measured by this rule.

[urajoke]

Correct the EU stupidly screwed every pension fund but many were left exposed by silly investing in exposed investments that should never have been done with pension money.

At the end of the day you won't see the benefit of high returns in a defined benefit scheme only the company will as it will reduce the amount they will have to contribute. I'm not swing that that has happened here as I don't know the ins and outs of this scheme.


N.B. I may have got some of my terms wrong I'm not a pensions expert.

[Tabnabs]

Just an update to this, looking more likely now.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...323032711.html

[polydactyl]

Due out on my honeymoon on Oct 1st. Have scrimped and saved every penny for this. Transatlantic. Anyone any idea if the "rolling strike" means we hae more or less chance of getting out??

[shamwari]

Am also due to fly to Glasgow with EI on October 1st, although they (I believe) are using Aer Arran aircraft. If this strike goes ahead, will the Aer Arran stuff be affected as well?

[Shamrock231]

DAA are also striking, so no matter the carrier you're grounded. The DAA provide handeling and security for the whole airport, no ones going anywhere...

[kub]

Originally Posted by Shamrock231

DAA are also striking, so no matter the carrier you're grounded. The DAA provide handeling and security for the whole airport, no ones going anywhere...

Its just as well that the good all ferries are running so. Security at airports and the delays which security has caused, has certainly made people think about ferry's.

Unions keep it lads, another reason for people not to fly to UK.

[dubdaymo]

Originally Posted by Shamrock231

DAA are also striking, so no matter the carrier you're grounded. The DAA provide handeling and security for the whole airport, no ones going anywhere...

So, you're saying that because the Aer Lingus/DAA Unions can't get their way, their intention is to close the three airports down and cause great disruption to all the other airlines which are not in any way involved in this dispute and to people going about their ordinary business?

[Shamrock231]

Originally Posted by dubdaymo

So, you're saying that because the Aer Lingus/DAA Unions can't get their way, their intention is to close the three airports down and cause great disruption to all the other airlines which are not in any way involved in this dispute and to people going about their ordinary business?

Isn't that the purpose if a strike? I'm not saying I think it's right, I'm just saying that's the way it is. If you want to fly on that day, Knock shouldn't be effected, or Belfast...

[stevedublin]

Originally Posted by dubdaymo

So, you're saying that because the Aer Lingus/DAA Unions can't get their way, their intention is to close the three airports down and cause great disruption to all the other airlines which are not in any way involved in this dispute and to people going about their ordinary business?

Their intention is to achieve a satisfactory resolution to the pensions dispute.