[Baz_]

I've done a lot of research online, I've watched a few videos and I've asked a few questions and now I feel it's high time I just got on with it!

However, I'm not going to have time to start until tomorrow (Saturday) evening so I can still sneak in a bit of research. I have a plan in my head about how I want to go about it and I would appreciate all the feedback and input I can get both in relation to my plan and also in relation to the more general questions I have.

The equipment I have right now is as follows:
1. Fermenting barrel with tap and bottling wand (it's one of them clear coopers kit barrels that comes with a sort of a collar between the barrel and lid)
2. Hydrometer
3. Plastic spoon for stirring
4. Beer kit
5. Dry yeast pack
6. Brew Enhancer
7. Carbonation Drops
8. VWP steriliser

First things first, I'm using terms below that I'm not 100% that I'm using correctly. So I have some glossary type questions up here:
1. Pitching: I think pitching is simply the act of adding the yeast to the main set of already mixed ingredients into the fermentation barrel. Is that correct?


From what I can gather it is a good idea to make a yeast starter the night before pitching the yeast, but the only videos I saw where a yeast start was made were using a pack of wet yeast and so first I want to know can you make a yeast starter with dry yeast? and if you can would you recommend that I do that?

If I can make a yeast starter with dry yeast then I plan to use a method I saw on youtube here. Now in that video the dude mixed up some water with his fermentable sugar, Dry Malt Extract, (in my case, I suppose I'll be using the brew enhancer) at a ratio of 2 cups water to 1/2 cup sugar, brought it to the boil for 10 minutes and then cooled it down and he then referred to this as wort. From what I understood up to now the wort is (in home brewing terms anyway) all the ingredients of the beer kit, apart from the yeast (and carbonation drops), mixed together in the barrel waiting for yeast pitching.

So either I misunderstood what the term wort is or I misunderstood the video. Can someone tell me which one it is?

If I understood the video and you can make a yeast starter from dry yeast then what I need to do is mix some water with some of the beer kit enhancer in the quantities above. Stir, stir, stir while it's heating. Bring to boil and allow to boil for ten minutes. Cool it down to a temperature that the yeast will be all happy and snugly in and call it wort. Then I need to add the yeast to the wort and stir, stir, stir like a crazy person for a while and then cover it up in a jar or flask with some tinfoil and leave it overnight. So again my question is can you make a yeast starter with dry yeast? How many of ye recommend the making of a yeast starter if I can? And is what I outlined here a suitable method for preparing a yeast starter.

The next step is to add the ingredients, beer kit enhancer (and if I've made a yeast starter this will just be the remainder of the enhancer that wasn't used in the starter) & beer kit, with 2 litres of hot water and again stir, stir, stir some more to mix it all together and dissolve the sugars and mix the beer kit evenly with everything else. Where the video that came with the kit says add hot water, I've read between the lines and take to mean nearly boiling water and if that's the case would I be better off mixing these ingredients in a pot on the cooker and bringing to near boil but also making sure that the sugars are dissolved as much as possible and also that the beer kit is mixed evenly through it?

So one way or another whether I mix it in a pot or in the barrel, after it's all mixed it will be in the barrel at this stage. Then I need to add more water to bring the water in the barrel up to 20 litres mark.

At this stage I add more water to bring up to the 23 litre mark and I need to use the addition of water at this stage to try to get the mixture to a yeast friendly temperature.

At this stage I pitch (is that right) the yeast into the mixture, put the collar onto the barrel and put the lid on the collar and wait.

How does all that sound so far?

Next I use the hydrometer measure the starting gravity of the brew, record the number and leave it alone for a while. A few more days go by and eventually I reach my final gravity. When the final gravity is reached at primary fermentation stage is there a rush to get the liquid beer out of the barrel and away from the sediment or can it be left in here indefinitely.

Next comes the secondary fermentation stage which I gather can either happen in the bottles themselves or in a second barrel. By the time I reach this stage I will most likely have a second barrel available so I intend to do my secondary fermentation in a barrel and if I do that do I just put the equivalent number of carbonation drops into the barrel as I would have put into the bottles if it was being secondarily fermented in the bottles? Or is there a better additive available to be used for secondary fermentation in a barrel? I have read that ordinary table sugar can be used instead of carbonation drops in the bottles and if that's the case I presume that it can also be used in the barrel, is that correct? And if it is, is there anything better that can be used?

So I leave the brew in the secondary fermentation barrel for about another week. Is that correct? and do I have to make any additions to the mix now? or take any hydrometer based readings?

After secondary fermentation is complete (how do I know?) in the barrel it is now time for bottling. Again from what I read I should leave the brew in the bottles for roughly two weeks in order for conditioning to take place. Is that correct?

Right so I think I've covered everything I intend to do and also everything that should be done. If I've missed a step please, please, please let me know!

Next job is to sit back, drink and enjoy!


Next I have some general Questions in relation to brewing:

In terms of fermentable sugars, what is the best type you can get for primary fermentation or does it depend on what you're making? Where can you get this best stuff? How much does it cost? And can you buy it in bulk to bring down the costs?

In terms of the secondary fermentation. What is the best sugar to add to this mixture either when it's in a barrel or being directly added to bottles? Is the best sugar to add at secondary fermentation the same for bottles and barrels? And again where can you buy this best stuff, how much does it cost, and can you buy in bulk?

I received brown PET plastic ox bar bottles with my kit. Are they any good?

I have VWP sterilising agent and I was wondering where I could get more/different sterilising agents, preferably of the non rinse sterilysing agent type?

Is yeast yeast? Or are there different yeasts for say a stout than you would use in a lager or ale? And where can I buy more yeast either in Dublin or online and where's the cheapest?

I think that's it for now, So I'll leave ye with all that for your consideration, and if I think of anything else I'll ask more questions later.

[BeerNut]

Before you start, remember the inside of your tap needs sanitising too. Run a few litres of sanitiser through it when that's in the bucket, and then rinsing water too when you're rinsing.

Originally Posted by Baz_

1. Pitching: I think pitching is simply the act of adding the yeast to the main set of already mixed ingredients into the fermentation barrel. Is that correct?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Baz_

From what I can gather it is a good idea to make a yeast starter the night before pitching the yeast, but the only videos I saw where a yeast start was made were using a pack of wet yeast and so first I want to know can you make a yeast starter with dry yeast? and if you can would you recommend that I do that?

Sounds like you've read and watched far too much and are over-complicating things for yourself. Sprinkle the contents of your sachet onto the made-up kit when it's around 27C or less. That's all you need to worry about yeast-wise when making your first kit.

Originally Posted by Baz_

would I be better off mixing these ingredients in a pot on the cooker and bringing to near boil but also making sure that the sugars are dissolved as much as possible and also that the beer kit is mixed evenly through it?

Doesn't make a whole lot of difference, but it's much easier to add the kit directly to the fermenter, with the other fermentables dissolved in hot water at the bottom of it. Remember to keep stirring when you top up with cold water: the wort concentrate will want to sink to the bottom. Don't let it.

Originally Posted by Baz_

Next I use the hydrometer measure the starting gravity of the brew

No. Take the gravity before you add the yeast. You don't want to lose granules by having them stick to the hydrometer, or otherwise disturb the yeast. You don't seem to have a trial jar, but you can float the hydrometer in the wort directly. Remember to calibrate the reading against temperature.

Originally Posted by Baz_

is there a rush to get the liquid beer out of the barrel and away from the sediment or can it be left in here indefinitely.

Neither. Five to six weeks is safe enough. Give it two weeks minimum.

Originally Posted by Baz_

I intend to do my secondary fermentation in a barrel and if I do that do I just put the equivalent number of carbonation drops into the barrel as I would have put into the bottles if it was being secondarily fermented in the bottles?

Overthinking again. Don't bother with a secondary. Ferment, then bottle.

Originally Posted by Baz_

Again from what I read I should leave the brew in the bottles for roughly two weeks in order for conditioning to take place. Is that correct?

2-3 I find works best.

Originally Posted by Baz_

In terms of fermentable sugars, what is the best type you can get for primary fermentation

Dry Malt Extract (aka spraymalt) gives the best results for kits.

Originally Posted by Baz_

Where can you get this best stuff?

Homebrew shops.

Originally Posted by Baz_

How much does it cost?

About €5 a kilo.

Originally Posted by Baz_

And can you buy it in bulk to bring down the costs?

A bit. But measuring it out is a pain in the hole so it's probably better buying it in single-use quantities.

Originally Posted by Baz_

In terms of the secondary fermentation. What is the best sugar to add

You don't add sugar during secondary fermentation. You don't do secondary fermentation in bottles.

The fermentation process that happens in bottles to get the fizz in is called "conditioning". You kick it off by priming the bottles: that is, adding a little extra sugar for the yeast to digest when it's sealed in, to trap the CO2. Since it's only a small amount of sugar it's not going to affect flavour so anything will do.

Originally Posted by Baz_

I received brown PET plastic ox bar bottles with my kit. Are they any good?

Yes. The most annoying thing is drowning them in sanitiser. They have an annoying habit of bobbing because they're so light.

Originally Posted by Baz_

I have VWP sterilising agent and I was wondering where I could get more/different sterilising agents, preferably of the non rinse sterilysing agent type?

To 20L of water add 30ml of thin bleach and 30ml of vinegar. You now have a non-rinse sanitiser.

Originally Posted by Baz_

Is yeast yeast?

No.

Originally Posted by Baz_

are there different yeasts for say a stout than you would use in a lager or ale?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Baz_

And where can I buy more yeast either in Dublin or online

TheHomebrewCompany.ie, HomeBrewWest.ie, MyBeerandWine.ie. There are lots.

Originally Posted by Baz_

and where's the cheapest?

It varies. Shop around.

Originally Posted by Baz_

if I think of anything else I'll ask more questions later.

Just a suggestion: but it might be worth doing a bit of a search on the forum first.

[Krusty_Clown]

Beernut has as always done a wonderful job of responding, but just to add that if you use this simple guide: getting started with beer kits, it's hard to go wrong. I haven't bothered to re-hydrate my yeast and haven't had any issues yet (on my 4th batch).

[sharingan]

There are things that can go wrong when you are making a yeast starter. Just throw the yeast on the fermenter when you have everything else done.

Follow the beoir guide. TBH making a kit beer on brew day is slightly more complicated than making a big cup of coffee.
- Sanitising is important.
- Stirring/aerating is important (to fully dissolve sugars and incorporate oxygen for yeast growth into the wort).
- Taking a gravity reading is important.

Focus on the task at hand, which is to get your brew started. You have a couple of weeks to learn about bottling & bottle conditioning.

Cooking dinner has more complicated processes than brewing a kit beer. Understand that, and focus on what is important. Ensure that you have a good beer to hand at the end to reward yourself when the job is done.

By your third brewday, you will be drinking one of your own.

[BeerNut]

Originally Posted by sharingan

There are things that can go wrong when you are making a yeast starter.

And starters are only really for liquid yeast. It's a good idea to rehydrate dry yeast, but it's not worth the hassle on your first brewday.

[azzeretti]

Originally Posted by BeerNut

And starters are only really for liquid yeast. It's a good idea to rehydrate dry yeast, but it's not worth the hassle on your first brewday.

There are certain situations when you would want to create starter with dry yeast. A prime example would be if you are not chilling your wort artifically (no chill). In this case it is advisable to pull some wort from the boiler and get the starter going over the next day or two so its ready when the wort has chilled under normal conditions. Also, for havesting etc.

To 20L of water add 30ml of thin bleach and 30ml of vinegar. You now have a non-rinse sanitiser.

Although you have the correct method above it is really worth pointing out that it NEEDS to be done in this order. DO NOT mix the bleach with the vinegar first as it is potentially fatal. Make sure you have your water filled first then add the bleach, mix, then add the vinegar.

As an aside. I think, while it is benifical to be generally clean, there is too much emphiases on santisation in brewing. I have been brewing for many years and I have never got an infection. Last year, I decieded to run some trials with some "less than perfect" santisation techniques. I didn't sanitise anything that came intouch with my brew. I washed everything, as I would normally, and made sure there was no visual marks/stains and continued as normal. I ran 5 brews with 2 of them stil in the bottles after 4 months and there was no evidence of any off taste that might come with infection. Now, I am not suggesting (and nor do I practice outside those few trials) not sanitising your kit but I just feel sometimes there is a little too much emphiases on it.

While it is almost certain the quailty of beer in the middle ages mightn't be what we consider "good" today, they still managed to produce wine/beer safe and clean enough for people to want more! All without sanitisation (save smoke etc). From a primary fermentaion point of view, there is very little that would manage to fight off millions and millions of healthy active yeast cells. Even while conditioning you'd want to be pretty filthy to enable infection to catch. Anyoo, I digress and have no doubt cursed myself to infected batches for the next year!

[covey09]

I just had the lap top open on Craigs video when i got to the part where i was combiming all the materials. Clean-mix-pitch its that handy.bottles tree id hand when you get to that stage. Beer nut has said it above you over thinking it i would sugest you have a few while your at it. PS 23 litres is very heavy so set up where your going to leave it. Glug Glug........ god damn it some one get me a pint of IPA stat.

[BeerNut]

Originally Posted by azzeretti

Also, for havesting

Harvesting dry yeast? Isn't that called "shoplifting"?

Originally Posted by azzeretti

While it is almost certain the quailty of beer in the middle ages mightn't be what we consider "good" today, they still managed to produce wine/beer safe and clean enough for people to want more!

They didn't make it from kits, though. Stuff got boiled.

[azzeretti]

Originally Posted by BeerNut

Harvesting dry yeast? Isn't that called "shoplifting"?

shuuusssssh! They'll be onto me.

They didn't make it from kits, though. Stuff got boiled.

True, but I was not just talking about the pre-fermentation phase. There was no sanitation when barreling (smoke to a certain extent) and I am not certain there was a connection between infected beer and cleanliness when bottling first began!
Also, when (back in the day) the wort was boiled, I can't imagine the utmost care was taken with movement to fermentation vessels etc. as it might be today.

[Baz_]

Right, got my first brew on last night. It was a coopers Canadian blonde that came with the pack, I'm not too sure if I'll enjoy that or not to be honest but the experience of brewing my first batch was what was important here.

I followed the beoir.ie guide to the letter and have to say I didn't find rehydrating the yeast to be too much hassle (although it was a bit fly by night as I have no submersible thermometer yet and had to rely on my old baby bottle making skills to check the temperature )

No reaction from the yeast when I added it to the fermentor last night but from what I had read I wasn't expecting any. But when I got up this morning there was a good bit of foamy head on top to suggest that beer is on the way, whoot!

I have to say it has been a brilliant experience so far and one of the best birthday presents I have ever gotten and I'm going to suggest it to anyone in the future who doesn't know what they would like for their birthday.

It was more time consuming than I thought it would be though and I will be referring to this thread quite a bit in the future methinks (I've already ordered the bottle washer/finder and bottle tree). In saying that though I feel pretty sure that while I'm killing off brain cells a few weeks down the line with my home brewed delight I'll be singing a different tune.

Now I'm already planning my second brew and looking for suggestions for a good Czech pilsner style kit, anyone?

[BeerNut]

Congrats on your first brew!

Originally Posted by Baz_

Now I'm already planning my second brew and looking for suggestions for a good Czech pilsner style kit, anyone?

Short honest answer is you can't make pale lager from kits so don't try. Although... some people here have reported good results from the Coopers European Pilsner kit, though how close it'll be to the likes of Pilsner Urquell is debatable.

[Krusty_Clown]

Originally Posted by Baz_

It was more time consuming than I thought it would be though and I will be referring to this thread quite a bit in the future methinks

My first kit took me hours, as I was constantly second-guessing myself, searching Beoir/Boards threads, watching Craig's Tubes videos etc. On kit #4, it took no time at all. No referencing external information, not paying too much attention to the kit instructions (still didn't prevent me from making some simple mistakes though!). One big time-saver for me, was having a 2.5L plastic measuring jug. I can't fill the fermenter directly from the tap, so this saved a lot of time/hassle.

[Baz_]

hmm, that's a shame about the pilsner, but I might try the coopers kit, although controlling the temperature will be difficult. How do people manage to control their fermentation temperature at a low temperature? It's especially difficult at this time of year I guess...

I'm just selecting some more equipment and ingredients from the homebrewwest website (this website seems to be the most reasonable, would anyone disagree?) and they have a kind of special on 3kg of dark spray malt. I'm tempted but I'm wondering is the dark spray malt meant to be used on a darker beer like stout or does it really matter. (Which reminds me, maybe I could go with a chocolate stout, yum!)

[BeerNut]

Originally Posted by Baz_

How do people manage to control their fermentation temperature at a low temperature?

Kit brewers mostly don't. Kits are designed to ferment at room temperature. For real lager brewing, a temperature controlled fridge is the norm. The ATC-800+ is the temperature controller I hear about most often from home brewers. It is possible to do a convincing lager substitute at low-ish room temperature using a very neutral yeast like Danstar Nottingham.

Originally Posted by Baz_

is the dark spray malt meant to be used on a darker beer like stout or does it really matter.

It will darken any beer you use it in. You can make dark beer with light spraymalt but not the reverse.

[Mr.Y]

How important is recommended temperature (13C to 21C) for
Coopers International European Lager 1.7kg kit ?
Mu current (July) room temperature ( 21C to 25C), September - October should be around ( 19C to 21C).
Will it ruin my batch if I start brewing in July or it's wise to wait till October for more friendly temperature?