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13-07-2012, 20:09   #61
gbee
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Collins was right then?

I guess Michael really did know what he was doing all those years ago.
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13-07-2012, 20:10   #62
Chuck Stone
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Originally Posted by alastair View Post
They can circle the church till the cows come home as far as I'm concerned
Ah I see what's going on here..

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Egocentrism is when one is over preoccupied with their own internal world. Egocentrics regard oneself and one's own opinions or interests as most important or valid

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egocentrism
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13-07-2012, 20:11   #63
alastair
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Ah I see what's going on here..
I doubt it - you seem determined to take offence - you were saying something about egocentric?
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13-07-2012, 20:13   #64
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you cant tell people they are being idiots, they dont believe you, they think you are attacking their heritage and culture which entrenches them even further. Sadly we have to wait a generation or two for their "traditions" and what they stand for to die out of their own accord as later generations realise what complete knobs their ancestors were................


*the same can be applied to the other side of this debate as well

** you still get idiots and bigots in later generations as well regardless

Last edited by BBDBB; 13-07-2012 at 20:15.
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13-07-2012, 20:17   #65
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Like I say - no-one is forcing you to stay or leave. Likewise no-one is stopping you 'air your displeasure'. Likewise I'm free to point out that you're whinging about the lack of atmosphere on a holiday that you don't actually subscribe to.
I wasn't "whinging about the lack of atmosphere on a holiday", that comment was directed at the overall parades to which I have to part of. However, what I was "whinging" about was the fact that these cunts (and they really are cunts, let's drop that social niceties) paraded in front of a Catholic Church in an area that they weren't marching in. They didn't need to do it, apart from just provoking the other side. They succeeded in that objective in Ardoyne last night.

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'Hegemony'? How's that impacting on you now?
I can't leave my home for hours on end lest they see I'm not part of their group. Do you understand what I mean by the use of the word "hegemony" at all? It is a hegemony when a minority (they are a minority in all respects) proceeds to take over parts of the city (along with other areas of Ni) in order to have their triumphalist marching. However, when they know what areas they are allowed to they still insist on marching in areas in order to antagonise the local population. They know which areas are a flash point but they insist on it. And that display outside St. Patrick's was the icing on the cake.
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13-07-2012, 20:19   #66
norrie rugger
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give me a break, hardly any prods left in the republic..they were driven out
I know quite a few protestant people and we get on just fine.
(I am of the Catholic heritage, even if an atheist)
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13-07-2012, 20:21   #67
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Where the disconnect lies for me is the fact that leaders of the OO try to portray the 12th as "Orangefest", some kind of family-friendly event. Well I went to a pre-12th local OO march in my area, and although it seems that for most of the participants it was a fun get-together, many of the people who came out for it were the real problem: total scumbags who were openly drinking and generally acting the bollix. One idiot 15 year old was even running around with a UVF flag stuck in his knapsack. The police saw them and just laughed.

If senior members of the OO really and truly believe that the 12th should be some kind of cross-community festival that even foreigners like myself are welcome to take part in, then they need to do something about 1) the scummy element who frequent these events and seem to get their rocks off by trying to be hard men, 2) the open and brazen display of paramilitary flags and paraphernalia, 3) anti-Catholic songs and banners, and 4) brazen acts of provocation. The older men in the video who attacked the person recording this tomfoolery in front of St. Patrick's would have been better served by turning their ire on the idiots who - once again - made their community look like unreconstructed bigots. The fact that they did nothing and attempted to 'shoot the messenger' so to speak, says volumes, really.
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13-07-2012, 20:21   #68
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Reaction here to the vid here https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...type=2&theater

Some hateful comments from Loyalist side, every excuse pulled out of the book. Thankfully they are a minority within the Unionist community who largely do not agree with their bigoted ways.

And burning a Polish flag(nevermind the usual Irish one) on a bonfire! (fast forward to about 2min to see it clearly)

What did the Polish do to deserve this?!
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13-07-2012, 20:21   #69
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These marches are all about 'marking territory' rather like canines do it.

But the dogs do it with a lot more grace.
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13-07-2012, 20:22   #70
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How's it bothering you then?
You don't understand how sectarianism or racism could bother somebody?
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13-07-2012, 20:26   #71
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There's plenty of provocateurs on both sides of the divide. However, as far as I'm concerned if people want the 12th of July to be a bank holiday commemorating the Battle of the Boyne, what odds? However, obviously the route of the marches should be chosen carefully, with respect, and with consultation with the PSNI.

I find the notion that this is only a Loyalist issue to be silly though. There's plenty of intolerance on both sides of the divide. I'm not convinced that the 12th of July in and of itself is the cause of the intolerance, but rather that it brings out the intolerance of a few.
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13-07-2012, 20:27   #72
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Originally Posted by philologos View Post
There's plenty of provocateurs on both sides of the divide. However, as far as I'm concerned if people want the 12th of July to be a bank holiday commemorating the Battle of the Boyne, what odds? However, obviously the route of the marches should be chosen carefully, with respect, and with consultation with the PSNI.

............
What that to do with the thread?
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13-07-2012, 20:28   #73
alastair
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Originally Posted by El Siglo View Post
I wasn't "whinging about the lack of atmosphere on a holiday", that comment was directed at the overall parades to which I have to part of. However, what I was "whinging" about was the fact that these cunts (and they really are cunts, let's drop that social niceties) paraded in front of a Catholic Church in an area that they weren't marching in. They didn't need to do it, apart from just provoking the other side. They succeeded in that objective in Ardoyne last night.
Because spides need encouragement to mix it up? Ardoyne didn't kick off because of this church antic - it's the same old story year after year. Six of one, and a half dozen of the other.



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Originally Posted by El Siglo View Post
I can't leave my home for hours on end lest they see I'm not part of their group. Do you understand what I mean by the use of the word "hegemony" at all? It is a hegemony when a minority (they are a minority in all respects) proceeds to take over parts of the city (along with other areas of Ni) in order to have their triumphalist marching. However, when they know what areas they are allowed to they still insist on marching in areas in order to antagonise the local population. They know which areas are a flash point but they insist on it. And that display outside St. Patrick's was the icing on the cake.
The parades used to take place without Catholics feeling they had to stay in all day - it's quite possible for the parades to continue without you fretting about 'hegemony', 'triumphalism' etc - and that's what the future holds - it's not your bag, but it is others'. Like I say - if you choose not to be antagonised, it fades away.
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13-07-2012, 20:30   #74
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18829447

The bbc's coverage of the incident.

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Loyalist band filmed outside north Belfast Catholic church




A loyalist band has been filmed stopping to play loyalist tunes outside a Catholic church in north Belfast.
The incident happened at St Patrick's Church on Donegall Street during the Twelfth of July parade on Thursday.
The band - wearing Shankill YCV uniforms - was recorded walking around in circles outside the church by two different people.
At the end of one of the videos, the person recording it is confronted and threatened by members of another band.
At one point the band was playing the music of "the famine song", an anti-Catholic song which originated in Glasgow.
The famine song is played to the music of the Beach Boys' Sloop John B, but replaces the chorus "I feel so broke up, I wanna go home" with "The famine is over, why don't you go home?".
Sinn Fein activist JJ Magee said he started to film the band with his phone outside the church as he thought they were being very provocative.
"I noticed out of the side of my eye two guys approaching me and they started shouting at me and threatening me," Mr Magee said.
"I started slowly walking up the street backwards, but then some of them started trying to snatch the phone off me.
"I then just had to protect myself and stop the guy swinging his stick at me and the other guys coming at me from the side swinging and pushing at me and then a couple of Orangemen with sashes on broke from the ranks and came over and started swinging kicks at me."
Mr Magee, who was not injured, said he remained as calm as he could as he looked to see if anyone was going to help him.
"The police officer, who was in charge of the situation, he noticed it and just went for his baton straight away," he said.
"He swung at the Orangemen and bandsmen and pushed them back onto the road."
'Dancing to drums' The man who filmed the other video - and who did not want to be named - said it happened shortly after the main Belfast Orange Order parade left Carlisle Circus.
He said there was a delay in the parade and the band moved from where they were standing to play outside the church.
He said they played for 15 to 20 minutes and at one point were dancing outside it while drums were being played.
Such incidents had been occurring for several years in the area, he added.
Sinn Fein's Conor Maskey saw the end of the incident.
"The actions of the band outside St Patrick's Church was deeply provocative," he said.
He said the words of the famine song were "deeply offensive and verging on racism".
Community worker Frank Dempsey described it as "totally provocative".
"Every year, up around Carrickhill and St Patrick's Chapel, we're subject to the same thing," he said.
In a statement the PSNI said: "During a parade through the area it was observed that two bands continued to play whilst stationary outside the church. Although it was deemed that this was not in breach of a Parades Commission determination, officers liaised with parade stewards to negotiate an end to this action.
"Police evidence gatherers were also tasked to the area to monitor and record the incident.
"Officers intervened when a member of the public privately recording the incident was approached by a group of men. Throughout this incident police worked closely with stewards and organisers to resolve the situation peacefully.
"A considerable amount of footage has been recorded and will be studied closely. If any criminal offences are detected a full and thorough investigation will be carried out."
In a statement, Belfast County Grand Lodge said: "The institution reviews all parades and will take any issues into account in that review."
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13-07-2012, 20:33   #75
Chuck Stone
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What did the Polish do to deserve this?!
These droolers define themselves by their hatred for 'the other'; Polish, Black, foreign.. any old other will do.
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