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Domer · 09-07-2012, 13:11

Just wondering does anybody know the legal standing with regard to disclaimers on race entry forms? If you sign the form saying that you agree that the race organisers are not responsible etc etc. are you signing away all claims, or is this disclaimer meaningless? Anybody have any experience with this? I am not trying to claim after a race, rather wondering if, as a race organiser, what do you need insurance for, if you have this disclaimer?

RoyMcC · 09-07-2012, 16:36

I have to say, as an organiser, I put it in but consider it pretty meaningless. You're trying to wash your hands in advance of your own negligence, carelessness, incompetence. It simply can't be done.

As an organiser make sure your insurance is in order and that you comply with any insurance requirements and governing body's recommended practices.

As a competitor you will have a valid claim for loss or injury due to the organiser's negligence but you would be expected not to contribute to your own downfall by pure carelessness.

chinguetti · 10-07-2012, 00:13

Wavers or disclaimers on an event ain't worse much from what i've been told. How i know this is that i work in the legal world and have asked a couple of legally trained people a couple of 'what if' questions on say, if someone was run into by someone wearing headphones and fell and was injuried.

They all said that there's a duty of care or lack of it in my above example and the organiser would have a problem if anyone cared to challenge it. In the world we live in, its strange that no one has gone the legal route yet.

Not mentioning that headphones were banned (just keeping with my example) or that this point was not clearly announced beforehand to all competitors would be a sign of lack of duty of care to the competitors.

RoyMcC · 10-07-2012, 08:02

Interesting points chinguetti. I don't think that headphones have been declared unsafe by AAI (the NGB). And as far as I know it has never been tested in any court. You'd therefore have a hard time proving negligence against an organiser.

You'd stand a better chance if the organiser HAD declared a ban, deeming them unsafe, and then didn't enforce the ban.

If, hypothetically, I was to action anyone for injury under these circumstances it would be the individual concerned. I still wouldn't expect to succeed though.

An announcement at the start? The only runners that hear that are those at the front not wearing headphones

PS - I'm not a lawyer so feel free to disagree with the foregoing.

average_runner · 10-07-2012, 09:04

If your member of a club you have insurance anyhow for races that are certified by Atheltics association of Ireland, i think!

chinguetti · 10-07-2012, 09:15

Hi Roy, i'm not a legal person and have no legal training so i'll try and clarify what i was told.

If a race say not to wear headphones on a race admission/flyer and someone wears headphones and an accident happens, then they have taken reasonable and due care and you can go after the person involved i'm told. I agree with you that it would be a hard thing to prove but i'm sure someone will in time.

If someone is wearing headphones in a race which has rolling road closures and there was no annoucement, then the race organiser hasn't shown due care to protect the safety of the people taking part so you can go after them as well as the person who caused the accident. Again, hard to prove.

The day will come when someone will challenge these things in court and alot of the smaller races and better races will feel the pressure of this. Look how many more people are running in events since 2010
than ever before. Higher numbers means a higher chance of accidents.

But it would be a mess on proving anything. For example, during Dublin marathon last year, a guy in front of me dropped a water bottle in his hand after one mile and decided to turn around and pick it up. Thereby turning into a crowd of on rushing runners, of which i was the first to meet him. He turned straight back into me, causing me to knock him over, roar abuse at him for his daft act but he couldn't hear me as he was wearing headphones.

As for announcement at a race start, most people can't hear it as its not through a proper sound system. Or as you said wearing headphones.

09-07-2012, 13:11	#1
Domer Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Ardaghey, Co. Monaghan Posts: 440 Adverts \| Friends	Insurance Disclaimers on Race Entries Just wondering does anybody know the legal standing with regard to disclaimers on race entry forms? If you sign the form saying that you agree that the race organisers are not responsible etc etc. are you signing away all claims, or is this disclaimer meaningless? Anybody have any experience with this? I am not trying to claim after a race, rather wondering if, as a race organiser, what do you need insurance for, if you have this disclaimer?

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09-07-2012, 16:36	#2
RoyMcC Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Jersey, Channel Islands Posts: 2,371 Adverts \| Friends	I have to say, as an organiser, I put it in but consider it pretty meaningless. You're trying to wash your hands in advance of your own negligence, carelessness, incompetence. It simply can't be done. As an organiser make sure your insurance is in order and that you comply with any insurance requirements and governing body's recommended practices. As a competitor you will have a valid claim for loss or injury due to the organiser's negligence but you would be expected not to contribute to your own downfall by pure carelessness.

10-07-2012, 00:13	#3
chinguetti Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Over there Posts: 1,874 Adverts \| Friends	Wavers or disclaimers on an event ain't worse much from what i've been told. How i know this is that i work in the legal world and have asked a couple of legally trained people a couple of 'what if' questions on say, if someone was run into by someone wearing headphones and fell and was injuried. They all said that there's a duty of care or lack of it in my above example and the organiser would have a problem if anyone cared to challenge it. In the world we live in, its strange that no one has gone the legal route yet. Not mentioning that headphones were banned (just keeping with my example) or that this point was not clearly announced beforehand to all competitors would be a sign of lack of duty of care to the competitors.

10-07-2012, 08:02	#4
RoyMcC Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Jersey, Channel Islands Posts: 2,371 Adverts \| Friends	Interesting points chinguetti. I don't think that headphones have been declared unsafe by AAI (the NGB). And as far as I know it has never been tested in any court. You'd therefore have a hard time proving negligence against an organiser. You'd stand a better chance if the organiser HAD declared a ban, deeming them unsafe, and then didn't enforce the ban. If, hypothetically, I was to action anyone for injury under these circumstances it would be the individual concerned. I still wouldn't expect to succeed though. An announcement at the start? The only runners that hear that are those at the front not wearing headphones PS - I'm not a lawyer so feel free to disagree with the foregoing.

10-07-2012, 09:04	#5
average_runner Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,893 Adverts \| Friends	If your member of a club you have insurance anyhow for races that are certified by Atheltics association of Ireland, i think!

10-07-2012, 09:15	#6
chinguetti Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Over there Posts: 1,874 Adverts \| Friends	Hi Roy, i'm not a legal person and have no legal training so i'll try and clarify what i was told. If a race say not to wear headphones on a race admission/flyer and someone wears headphones and an accident happens, then they have taken reasonable and due care and you can go after the person involved i'm told. I agree with you that it would be a hard thing to prove but i'm sure someone will in time. If someone is wearing headphones in a race which has rolling road closures and there was no annoucement, then the race organiser hasn't shown due care to protect the safety of the people taking part so you can go after them as well as the person who caused the accident. Again, hard to prove. The day will come when someone will challenge these things in court and alot of the smaller races and better races will feel the pressure of this. Look how many more people are running in events since 2010 than ever before. Higher numbers means a higher chance of accidents. But it would be a mess on proving anything. For example, during Dublin marathon last year, a guy in front of me dropped a water bottle in his hand after one mile and decided to turn around and pick it up. Thereby turning into a crowd of on rushing runners, of which i was the first to meet him. He turned straight back into me, causing me to knock him over, roar abuse at him for his daft act but he couldn't hear me as he was wearing headphones. As for announcement at a race start, most people can't hear it as its not through a proper sound system. Or as you said wearing headphones.