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06-07-2012, 14:33   #31
cocker5
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[QUOTE=carly_86;79592683]
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Originally Posted by loveisdivine View Post

I am sure most people don't get the dog health tested before buying a pup
i think your missing the WHOLE point... or else not reading posts correctly...

the BUYER doesnt get the dog/pup health tested... the BREEDER should get their dogs health tested BEFORE breeding
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06-07-2012, 14:37   #32
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And health tests are so, so important now with how the breeds are ending up. I met a beautiful long haired german shepherd yesterday, just nine months old but with obvious hip dysplasia Poor dog is going to in a lot of trouble in the next year or so.
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06-07-2012, 14:40   #33
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[QUOTE=carly_86;79592683]
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I am sure most people don't get the dog health tested before buying a pup
That doesnt matter Carly, thats not the attitude to have. Its up to the buyer to make sure they buy from health tested parents and responsible breeders. Do you know how bad this country is in with regards to unhealthy dogs that are put to sleep and over breeding?
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06-07-2012, 14:41   #34
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And health tests are so, so important now with how the breeds are ending up. I met a beautiful long haired german shepherd yesterday, just nine months old but with obvious hip dysplasia Poor dog is going to in a lot of trouble in the next year or so.
A friend of mine has a beautiful long haird male german shepard, 6 months, he stayed with us last week.... obvious hip dysplasia too... he back legs wobble as he walks and kinda each lef kinda crosses over etc...
its just sooo sad
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06-07-2012, 14:47   #35
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I find there is a sinister element to "propper breeders" also. They always have a waiting list due to other breeders needing a bitch or a dog to breed, they always hang around in little tight little circles. Due to the internet, they start selling dogs to other country's specifically for breeding. They also over charge on the price of the dog and claim "health Benifits" yet cannot guarantee this.

Not only that but they practice selective breeding which is a common characteristic of a Nazi

My advice just rescue this dog will become a part of your family and like members of your family, you have good and bad mostly good.
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06-07-2012, 14:54   #36
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Originally Posted by Dre as in Dray View Post
I find there is a sinister element to "propper breeders" also. They always have a waiting list due to other breeders needing a bitch or a dog to breed, they always hang around in little tight little circles. Due to the internet, they start selling dogs to other country's specifically for breeding. They also over charge on the price of the dog and claim "health Benifits" yet cannot guarantee this.

Not only that but they practice selective breeding which is a common characteristic of a Nazi

My advice just rescue this dog will become a part of your family and like members of your family, you have good and bad mostly good.
Sorry but i disagree. Responsible breeders have waiting lists because they dont breed very often. They usually only breed when they want to keep something for themselves, or the dog is of exceptional quality and has become a champion in its breed etc.

Depending on the breed, the bitch might only have 5/6 pups so if people are looking for a good pup they might have to wait a while.

They certainly do not over charge. Do you know how much it actually costs to breed and raise a litter properly?? Im guessing not.

There is nothing about "health benefits", its health tests that are done on the parents. Nothing can be guaranteed but if the parents are health tested then it reduces the risk of any problems being passed on to the pups.

Last edited by andreac; 06-07-2012 at 15:01.
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06-07-2012, 14:58   #37
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Originally Posted by Dre as in Dray View Post
I find there is a sinister element to "propper breeders" also. They always have a waiting list due to other breeders needing a bitch or a dog to breed, they always hang around in little tight little circles. Due to the internet, they start selling dogs to other country's specifically for breeding. They also over charge on the price of the dog and claim "health Benifits" yet cannot guarantee this.
In that case, I think we have very different opinions on what the word 'proper' means. A proper breeder to me is one that health tests both parents before breeding, does not breed either until they are at least two years old, each pup is fed high quality food, microchipped, vaccinated, wormed, vet checked and is only sold on a contract that they MUST be returned to the breeder if there are any issues. I'm not big on showing, and to me it sounds like what you're describing are some show people (not all of them obviously because I've met a lot lovely show people who would bend over backwards to help you out, but the kind you talk about are those that give dog showing a bad name)
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06-07-2012, 15:29   #38
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In that case, I think we have very different opinions on what the word 'proper' means. A proper breeder to me is one that health tests both parents before breeding, does not breed either until they are at least two years old, each pup is fed high quality food, microchipped, vaccinated, wormed, vet checked and is only sold on a contract that they MUST be returned to the breeder if there are any issues. I'm not big on showing, and to me it sounds like what you're describing are some show people (not all of them obviously because I've met a lot lovely show people who would bend over backwards to help you out, but the kind you talk about are those that give dog showing a bad name)


So if you do get a dog and that dog ends up having health issues and you sold that dog to a family. Why would the family return it ? ? Would the breeder pay the vet bills ?
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06-07-2012, 15:37   #39
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He said he stopped registering the pups because of the price involved.
Probably also because he'd be shut down when he registers the 18th batch from the same bitch.

=-=

My own westie lived for 15 years, but always had skin/coat problems. Got her in 1997/1998 when only dial-up was around, from a woman in a small house in the middle of Connamara.

When I buy a dog myself in the future, I'll be doing a lot of research!
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06-07-2012, 15:41   #40
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Sorry but i disagree. Responsible breeders have waiting lists because they dont breed very often. They usually only breed when they want to keep something for themselves, or the dog is of exceptional quality and has become a champion in its breed etc.

Depending on the breed, the bitch might only have 5/6 pups so if people are looking for a good pup they might have to wait a while.

They certainly do not over charge. Do you know how much it actually costs to breed and raise a litter properly?? Im guessing not.

There is nothing about "health benefits", its health tests that are done on the parents. Nothing can be guaranteed but if the parents are health tested then it reduces the risk of any problems being passed on to the pups.

I am just generalizing like everybody else here. With regards to the dog problem within Ireland, "proper breeders" are not exempt from any of this.
Just walking your Champion line pedigree dog down the street is advertisement in itself. How many people see that and think "i want a dog"

How about banning all breeding and sale of dogs for 15 years. The only way to obtain a dog is from a shelter. Fixed price on all breeds and cross breeds.
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06-07-2012, 15:41   #41
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So if you do get a dog and that dog ends up having health issues and you sold that dog to a family. Why would the family return it ? ? Would the breeder pay the vet bills ?
Any breeder worth his salt would at least offer what they paid for the dog as a refund, and help in any way they can. And the issues I meant were that they couldn't keep the dog/were emigrating and such, that the dog must be returned to the breeder and not sold to a third party, put in a pound.
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06-07-2012, 15:58   #42
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Originally Posted by Dre as in Dray View Post
I am just generalizing like everybody else here. With regards to the dog problem within Ireland, "proper breeders" are not exempt from any of this.
Just walking your Champion line pedigree dog down the street is advertisement in itself. How many people see that and think "i want a dog" How about banning all breeding and sale of dogs for 15 years. The only way to obtain a dog is from a shelter. Fixed price on all breeds and cross breeds.
Sorry but i completley disagree on this highlighted point. Its far from an advertisement.
Ive a champion dog whos done an awful lot of winning and is available for stud, but do you know how many times hes been used? 3, and hes nearly 6. He was top in his breed for 2011, has won several big awards but the demand isnt there like you think it is.

I dont advertise him on donedeal or the likes. Hes on the Club website, and my own website but there still isnt huge demand for stud dogs, well not the way you seem to think there is.

Contrary to what you think is going on, i think you really dont have a clue.

If people bred responsibly and werent cross breeding dogs and selling to dodgy people then there wouldnt be the amount of dogs in rescue in the first place.
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06-07-2012, 16:02   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dre as in Dray View Post
I am just generalizing like everybody else here. With regards to the dog problem within Ireland, "proper breeders" are not exempt from any of this.
Just walking your Champion line pedigree dog down the street is advertisement in itself. How many people see that and think "i want a dog" How about banning all breeding and sale of dogs for 15 years. The only way to obtain a dog is from a shelter. Fixed price on all breeds and cross breeds.
Sorry but i completley disagree on this highlighted point. Its far from an advertisement.
Ive a champion dog whos done an awful lot of winning and is available for stud, but do you know how many times hes been used? 3, and hes nearly 6. He was top in his breed for 2011, has won several big awards but the demand isnt there like you think it is.

I dont advertise him on donedeal or the likes. Hes on the Club website, and my own website but there still isnt huge demand for stud dogs, well not the way you seem to think there is.

Contrary to what you think is going on, i think you really dont have a clue.

If people bred responsibly and werent cross breeding dogs and selling to dodgy people then there wouldnt be the amount of dogs in rescue in the first place.
Everyone is entitled to there opinion
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06-07-2012, 16:13   #44
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Originally Posted by andreac View Post
Sorry but i completley disagree on this highlighted point. Its far from an advertisement.
Ive a champion dog whos done an awful lot of winning and is available for stud, but do you know how many times hes been used? 3, and hes nearly 6. He was top in his breed for 2011, has won several big awards but the demand isnt there like you think it is.

I dont advertise him on donedeal or the likes. Hes on the Club website, and my own website but there still isnt huge demand for stud dogs, well not the way you seem to think there is.

Contrary to what you think is going on, i think you really dont have a clue.

If people bred responsibly and werent cross breeding dogs and selling to dodgy people then there wouldnt be the amount of dogs in rescue in the first place.

The amount of dogs in the pounds is down to consumerism. We live in a society were advertising has a big impact on peoples everyday life. By wearing a designer top or designer runners, you are advertising. By walking your dog or even showing your dog. (like fashion designers) you are sending a message to people, consumers if you will who will think. "I want one" These people then go to done deal or puppy farms and buy dogs.

How can you say this is not true ?
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06-07-2012, 16:14   #45
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Everyone is entitled to there opinion
Which is why i said i "disagree"
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