[Sean Bateman]

Originally Posted by liammur

She def has a gold, who else do you think will win 1 ?

Katie Taylor's not relevant...fair play to her but let's put her achievements into perspective. She's competing in a mickey mouse event. It's like getting excited about a male netball player...she's top of the heap in a "minority minority sport".

New thinking is required for the Irish rugby team - Let's not have a wasted season this Autumn / Spring. Sack Kidney now and throw money at Schmidt or Jake White.

[rrpc]

Originally Posted by liammur

She def has a gold, who else do you think will win 1 ?

Paddy Barnes and possibly Adam Nolan, but it really depends on the draw.

[liammur]

Originally Posted by molloyjh

So does that mean you'd agree we have a huge issue at coaching level if you think we're up there with England and Wales yet we've lost our last 2 games in a row and 3 games in a row against both of those sides respectively!?

I've wanted Kidney gone for at least 2 years. I've said that numerous times. I don't want to blame the man 100% for our failures, but he certainly is way out of his depth and has been for some time.

[liammur]

Originally Posted by rrpc

Paddy Barnes and possibly Adam Nolan, but it really depends on the draw.

Interesting - thanks.

[rrpc]

Originally Posted by Sean Bateman

Katie Taylor's not relevant...fair play to her but let's put her achievements into perspective. She's competing in a mickey mouse event. It's like getting excited about a male netball player...she's top of the heap in a "minority minority sport".

That's incredibly disrespectful of both her and her sport. It might be a minority minority sport here, but not in the rest of Europe or the world.

The Russian boxer she faced in the WCH final was an excellent boxer and it was a difficult and very technical fight. The sport has been overlooked by most people because it didn't have Olympic status until this Olympiad, but there's always been a vibrant and strongly contested ECH and WCH program.

[OldRio]

[QUOTE=Sean Bateman;79378639]Katie Taylor's not relevant...fair play to her but let's put her achievements into perspective. She's competing in a mickey mouse event. It's like getting excited about a male netball player...she's top of the heap in a "minority minority sport".

Deary deary me.

[liammur]

Originally Posted by rrpc

That's incredibly disrespectful of both her and her sport. It might be a minority minority sport here, but not in the rest of Europe or the world.

The Russian boxer she faced in the WCH final was an excellent boxer and it was a difficult and very technical fight. The sport has been overlooked by most people because it didn't have Olympic status until this Olympiad, but there's always been a vibrant and strongly contested ECH and WCH program.

He may be right in that it's a minority sport etc, but surely no one can take away what she has achieved. 1 of our greatest sports people of all time. About 4 years ago I had her down to win an olympic gold, and she has been top of the world since then.

[Sean Bateman]

Lads, this is a rugby thread so let's not derail it (I didn't bring Katie Taylor up).

How many male boxers are there in the world? Tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands.

How many female boxers in the world? Not very many and that contaminates Katie Taylor's relative greatness.

If we've the greatest pothole jumper in the world, that isn't up there with having the 100m champion.

Not trolling - Just logic rather than paddywhackery and gombeenism dressed up as patriotism.

[totallegend]

Lads, this is right up there with the "is sailing popular in New Zealand" discussion last week; there's a boxing forum if you want to discuss.

[GerM]

Originally Posted by Sean Bateman

New thinking is required for the Irish rugby team - Let's not have a wasted season this Autumn / Spring. Sack Kidney now and throw money at Schmidt or Jake White.

The IRFU can't fire up the printing press and pump out a shed load of fifties. Where is this money going to come from? They'd need to pay off DK (who has less than a year to run) and then buy Jake White out of his contract? There isn't a bottomless pit of cash for them to spend. The IRFU is no different to any other element of business. It's a recession and they'll cut their cloth accordingly.

[liammur]

Originally Posted by Sean Bateman

Lads, this is a rugby thread so let's not derail it (I didn't bring Katie Taylor up).

How many male boxers are there in the world? Tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands.

How many female boxers in the world? Not very many and that contaminates Katie Taylor's relative greatness.

If we've the greatest pothole jumper in the world, that isn't up there with having the 100m champion.

Not trolling - Just logic rather than paddywhackery and gombeenism dressed up as patriotism.

I still think rrpc is 100% correct when he says we are good at boxing. I just look at what we have won in it. 3 medals at the last olympics for instance. If we are to win a medal in the london olympics, make no mistake, it will be in boxing.

[liammur]

Originally Posted by GerM

The IRFU can't fire up the printing press and pump out a shed load of fifties. Where is this money going to come from? They'd need to pay off DK (who has less than a year to run) and then buy Jake White out of his contract? There isn't a bottomless pit of cash for them to spend. The IRFU is no different to any other element of business. It's a recession and they'll cut their cloth accordingly.

I agree 100%.
Do you know anything about the state of their finances ?

[vkid]

Originally Posted by GerM

The IRFU can't fire up the printing press and pump out a shed load of fifties. Where is this money going to come from? They'd need to pay off DK (who has less than a year to run) and then buy Jake White out of his contract? There isn't a bottomless pit of cash for them to spend. The IRFU is no different to any other element of business. It's a recession and they'll cut their cloth accordingly.

agreed, but personally I'm not sure firing Schmidt in there is going to be the quick fix some people think it is. In the same way as firing Kidney is not going to be a quick fix...there is a bigger picture in all this imo

[Tox56]

Originally Posted by vkid

agreed, but personally I'm not sure firing Schmidt in there is going to be the quick fix some people think it is. In the same way as firing Kidney is not going to be a quick fix...there is a bigger picture in all this imo

Yes but it still needs to be done (removal of Kidney that is)

[[Jackass]]

I think the national team has regressed massively under Kidney, in a period where our club sides have more and more began to dominate in European rugby, more so than during any other period of Irish rugby history (in professional era of course.)

I think the problem primarily starts with the blazers in Lansdowne Road and all the politics that goes with it, and it is seriously handicapping Ireland at international level, right from the top down, a crippling effect.

I think Kidney should have gone after the world cup. First of all, it's amazing that they did the exact same thing as they did with Eddie O'Sullivan, and extended a contract pre-world cup. A world cup cycle should be the pinnacle of a management job, where you get 4 years and then that's what you build up towards. That's the final curtain call.

And in all honesty, I think 9 times out of 10, a coach should move on after a 4 year world cup cycle, unless exceptional progress has been made, as I think it's good to freshen things up over each cycle, and bring in new ideas and stick with what worked. It also makes us a lot more difficult to play as we're not predictable, both in terms of selection and in style.

The problem that the politics has given us now, is that even if Kidney see's out his contract, it will give another coach just 2 years to prepare for a world cup, and that's not much time to phase out the old and bring through the new.

Ireland just finished 5th in a junior world cup and without question could have won, and arguably should have played in at least the semi-finals, save for a second half collapse against England that they put right on the second attempt 2 weeks later, as they watched the team they beat, South Africa, lift the trophy, after beating France following our win over them away in the six nations. On talent coming through, there is no question, and these are guys that should be on a progression path, earmarked for trying to fit them in before the next world cup, like Furlong at tight-head. If they're good enough, they're old enough, but players like this need to be encouraged to be more involved in provincial set-up, given special attention, an "elite development" and see if they can step up. We're so precious over age in Ireland, and that exact attitude stunts development.

Kidney could have walked away after the world cup with his head held very high, and I think everyone would have been happy enough. O'Sullivan could have walked away after the world cup before, and I think everyone would have said disaster of a world cup, but fair play, and again, I think everyone felt it was the right time. These crucial decisions are the IRFU's fault. They've proven themselves inept many times in the past, lest we forget the ticketing fiasco as one recent example. They make a very strong challenge to the pack of muppets in Merrion Square for the most politically run mafia clown college in the country.

So where do we go?

Well, with the top brass essentially being the number 1 problem, progress is almost impossible. They own it all, the national team, the voting rights, they are the decision makers, they even own and control our beloved provinces, which they are trying to drag down to the internationals teams level for fear of becoming irrelevant, rather than embracing the provincial model and trying to bring the national team up to that standard of play.

I don't accept that international rugby is too much of a step up. It is the same collection of players in the Heineken Cup as it is in the Six Nations, and our record is terrible. And if we can't function at that level, about 80% below the level we should be performing at, then of course when we go to somewhere like New Zealand, we are going to get slaughtered. Did we ever expect anything else in reality? With the benefit of hindsight?

Selections are also very political. That's clear for all to see. Players who shouldn't be near the squad are starting, and whether you don't want to admit it to yourself, or want to be tribal about it, deep down we all know it, and it shows on the pitch too.

So before we even look at what to fix on the pitch, we have a sh*t filled mire of a crap tornado to battle through just to reach the mine field of crap bombs to navigate before we can expect any progress, BUT, an acceptance of failure, and more importantly, an admittance of it (they're an awful stubborn bunch), could see us fix this system.

What is required is a rational, cyclical process, where no one is untouchable, and a coach is selected on his merit, the less previous involvement with the IRFU and provinces the better quite frankly (for now at least), but he must also be given a free reign. Contracts, promotions, arm bands, pressure from above, media garbage and reputation alone should be in no way an influencing factor on anything the coach does, and I think we are intelligent enough to stick with a coach who is doing the right things, even if it's not an immediate success.

If that can be achieved, we can look at the pool of players.

Guys like O'Gara, O'Driscoll, O'Callaghan etc. (and thankfully a lot less of them these days) can obviously still do a job for us, but there's no point in getting a job done, when we could be developing a better player a few years down the road given the experience..

I'm not saying drop them completely, but definitely give starts and bench spots to lads with a point to prove, and stop relying on the old guard. If bits aren't working, they're always there to patch up...