[opinion guy]

Lol was waiting for a post like that.

All that said...This is what I signed up for and I genuinely love every second of it. Digging deep...

The Force is strong in this one.

I wager 4 cuatros on the newcomer......

[take everything]

Originally Posted by Dr.NickRiviera

OH...MY...GOD...

First week done. I am too wrecked to even begin to describe. 36 hour shift on call working straight without 1 min of sleep...and in for theatre in the morning post call. I was warned...

Suffice to say...If you can hack it over here...you can hack it anywhere in the world...

Any NCHD that works here would be basically on holiday working in NZ/OZ...I really can't believe what I just experienced. And I still have a whole weekend on call to look forward to...

Interesting observation tho...almost 99% of interns are Irish...almost 99% of consultants are Irish...almost 90% of NCHDs are foreign...hmmm

All that said...This is what I signed up for and I genuinely love every second of it. Digging deep...

'I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.' (Vince Lombardi)

And yes...the HSE is a field of battle...

36 hr shifts should be a thing of the past according to the EWTD if i'm not mistaken. Was quite disappointed that my current job ignores this as well (in fairness my job is quite cushy compared to surgery but still).
Post-call (trying to get the new admissions straight in your head etc) as you say is the real killer.

[opinion guy]

Originally Posted by take everything

36 hr shifts should be a thing of the past according to the EWTD if i'm not mistaken. Was quite disappointed that my current job ignores this as well (in fairness my job is quite cushy compared to surgery but still).
Post-call (trying to get the new admissions straight in your head etc) as you say is the real killer.

What planet are you living on that you thought 36hours shifts were gone ?
Its still normal for surgical shos and registrars to work sat morning to mon evening inclusive for heavens sake. That's about 60 hours plus. In one go. That's "normal" practice. In most hospitals in the country.
Some disciplines do more. I've heard of people coming on duty Friday morning and leaving Monday

[briankirby]

Thanks a lot for the update dr Nick.
Most public servants work 36 hours in an entire week.36 hour shift is ridiculous.
Opinion guy,this may be a rhetorical question but if u refused to work more than your contracted hours,what would the consequences be?
I cant think of any other profession where this would be deemed acceptable.
If i ever do med,ill be leaving for the uk or NZ very quickly

Originally Posted by opinion guy

What planet are you living on that you thought 36hours shifts were gone ?
Its still normal for surgical shos and registrars to work sat morning to mon evening inclusive for heavens sake. That's about 60 hours plus. In one go. That's "normal" practice. In most hospitals in the country.
Some disciplines do more. I've heard of people coming on duty Friday morning and leaving Monday

[take everything]

What planet are you living on that you thought 36hours shifts were gone ?

Easy there. Where did i say they were gone. Of course they're here still (I did one last night FFS). What i said was before starting this job i hoped they adhered to something resembling a 24 hr max (EWTD) thing like they do in other places i have worked. They didn't.

Its still normal for surgical shos and registrars to work sat morning to mon evening inclusive for heavens sake.

I haven't done surgery since internship (and yeah saturday morning to monday at 5 was a weekend then) but i'm not sure if this is actually true generally still. I was of the impression this was largely gone (to resemble something vaguely like EWTD). Anyone from surgery/internal medicine want to say what a weekend involves for them?
Anyway, all the last few jobs i've done, i never worked longer than 32 hours or so.

That's about 60 hours plus. In one go. That's "normal" practice. In most hospitals in the country.

Dunno if it is any more.
Varies with specialty but anyone else here still work longer than 35 hours regularly?

Some disciplines do more. I've heard of people coming on duty Friday morning and leaving Monday

Really. That was a weekend years ago. but now? Still? Really?

[opinion guy]

Originally Posted by take everything

I haven't done surgery since internship (and yeah saturday morning to monday at 5 was a weekend then) but i'm not sure if this is actually true generally. I was of the impression this was largely gone (to resemble something vaguely like EWTD). Anyone from surgery/internal medicine want to say what a weekend involves for them?
Anyway, all the last few jobs i've done, i never worked longer than 32 hours or so.

Dunno if it is any more.
Varies with specialty but anyone else here still work longer than 35 hours regularly?

Really. That was a weekend years ago. but now? Still? Really?

I'm not talking about interns here - shos & registrars. This was still the case last time I talked to a surgeon which was a few months back maybe

[take everything]

Originally Posted by opinion guy

I'm not talking about interns here - shos & registrars. This was still the case last time I talked to a surgeon which was a few months back maybe

Interns, shos, whatever.
What i'm saying to you is the last time i did a weekend from Saturday to Monday at 5 was as a surgical Intern (and the SHO did the same, and the reg- but he got to stay offsite a bit of course). But that was a few years ago. I was under the impression this has changed. Maybe it's because of specialty but what i'm saying is since then, i haven't done this kind of weekend shift. The longest i've worked is maybe 35 hours.
I know people who still work Saturday and Sunday and Mon to 5 but is this still the norm? I'd be interested to know if others do still work 60-70 hour shifts regularly.

[opinion guy]

Originally Posted by take everything

Interns, shos, whatever.
What i'm saying to you is the last time i did a weekend from Saturday to Monday at 5 was as a surgical Intern (and the SHO did the same, and the reg- but he got to stay offsite a bit of course). But that was a few years ago. I was under the impression this has changed. Maybe it's because of specialty but what i'm saying is since then, i haven't done this kind of weekend shift. The longest i've worked is maybe 35 hours.
I know people who still work Saturday and Sunday and Mon to 5 but is this still the norm? I'd be interested to know if others do still work 60-70 hour shifts regularly.

I make a point of asking any docs I meet about this. And I meet a few. I can tell you with more surety than the HSE or the IMO that this is the norm for surgical services in most hospitals.

See this is part of the problem here. When folks like you get up the ladder you lose touch with whats going on on the ground floor. SpR's and Consultants simply don't concern themselves which such menialities. Never mind the fact that most of what interns and shos's at least do is non medical work.
Hence the mass exodus.

[take everything]

Originally Posted by opinion guy

I make a point of asking any docs I meet about this. And I meet a few. I can tell you with more surety than the HSE or the IMO that this is the norm for surgical services in most hospitals.

See this is part of the problem here. When folks like you get up the ladder you lose touch with whats going on on the ground floor. SpR's and Consultants simply don't concern themselves which such menialities. Never mind the fact that most of what interns and shos's at least do is non medical work.
Hence the mass exodus.

I'm not up the ladder.
I'm probably just lucky to have worked in areas/jobs with shifts no longer than 32 hrs . I completely agree that doctors at SHO level are often treated appallingly. And that a lot of what they do is, as you say, bull****, time-consuming non-clinical stuff.

[lonestargirl]

[QUOTE=take everything]
I haven't done surgery since internship (and yeah saturday morning to monday at 5 was a weekend then) but i'm not sure if this is actually true generally still. I was of the impression this was largely gone (to resemble something vaguely like EWTD). Anyone from surgery/internal medicine want to say what a weekend involves for them? [QUOTE]

The surgery reg job my husband just finished was Sat morn to Mon evening weekend call, Q4 all in house. This was in Dublin.

[lonestargirl]

Quote fail = iPhone

[opinion guy]

Originally Posted by lonestargirl

The surgery reg job my husband just finished was Sat morn to Mon evening weekend call, Q4 all in house. This was in Dublin.

How did he feel about that ?

[j.mcdrmd]

Originally Posted by briankirby

Most public servants work 36 hours in an entire week.36 hour shift is ridiculous.

I cant think of any other profession where this would be deemed acceptable.

Originally Posted by opinion guy

I can tell you with more surety than the HSE or the IMO that this is the norm for surgical services in most hospitals.

See this is part of the problem here. When folks like you get up the ladder you lose touch with whats going on on the ground floor. SpR's and Consultants simply don't concern themselves which such menialities. Never mind the fact that most of what interns and shos's at least do is non medical work.

Is there a cultural problem here, what would not be acceptable in any other job is accepted in medicine?

[RobFowl]

Originally Posted by j.mcdrmd

Is there a cultural problem here, what would not be acceptable in any other job is accepted in medicine?

I think you have hit the nail on the head here. So many generations of docs have done these sort of hours it's seen almost as a rite of passage. That said some surgical schemes do seem to need long shifts to allow senior nchds to get the nessecary experience.

[lonestargirl]

Originally Posted by opinion guy

How did he feel about that ?

From a work element he finds it ok. We were in the US for a while where the hours are longer overall (you go home after call but can work weeks and weeks with that 24 post call period being your only time off). We have an 18 month old and when he was on all weekend we would come out and visit for coffee on the Sunday morning so that he could see his dad.

Originally Posted by RobFowl

I think you have hit the nail on the head here. So many generations of docs have done these sort of hours it's seen almost as a rite of passage. That said some surgical schemes do seem to need long shifts to allow senior nchds to get the nessecary experience.

There is also the sense of responsibility that most doctors feel to their patients. Many would find it hard to leave if they know that people still need them.