[Tragedy]

Originally Posted by munchkin_utd

What they get in their pocket and what it "costs" is 2 different things.
To setup a workplace and to provide the backup services for it is not free. IT support is not cheap and the extra offices (and the lighting/ heating/ cleaning) needed to house the extra staff that are needed to provide this (free) service is not free either.

They already have the staff to process declaring cars off the road (after the fact) so why would they have new costs to declare cars off the road (before the fact)?

With 300,000 cars off the road, if you take 50 weeks of the offices being open thats 1200 cars a day to be registered.
(now not all will hit the system every year, but some will be registrered and de registered multiple times so 300k is not a bad figure of the nr of transactions)

Why would every car that's off the road suddenly be taxed?

Some cases will be straightforward and take a minute to process but some would need extensive following up, letter written phone calls made etc.
25euro is probably over the cost of what it costs, but its not free either!

What needs following up?

Or maybe it should be free like water?
Water that costs 1billion euro a year to provide.
But no, thats supposed to be free and magically paid for by someone else too.

Have you ever heard of VAT? Or PAYE?
No?
That explains a lot about that quote^

[ShadowHearth]

Oh god, why the feckers just have to invent some stupid way to tackle the problems.

Make people to declare car off road, before it goes off road. Make a stupendest huge fine for cought on road with car, which declared off road. Job done.

[djimi]

In fairness, I can understand why they are bringing this charge in; there are a lot of people who are trying to exploit the system of declaring a car off the road in an effort to avoid paying road tax and I can understand this issue needs to get sorted. However they way they are going about it makes no sense. Charging €25 is not going to stop someone who is looking to avoid paying €100+, and it only wrongly penalises those who are legit.

[Voodoomelon]

There'll be a lot of delighted people out there who will gladly pay €25 to declare the car off the road, as opposed to an "in-advance" system.

[corktina]

do you not feel its fair for a Householder to pay towards street lighting or pavement sweeping for instance?

As regards this €25, well theres a cost to administer you declaring your car off road, is it fair that everyone without a car off road should contribute towards your cost?

[galwaytt]

Originally Posted by munchkin_utd

What they get in their pocket and what it "costs" is 2 different things.
To setup a workplace and to provide the backup services for it is not free. IT support is not cheap and the extra offices (and the lighting/ heating/ cleaning) needed to house the extra staff that are needed to provide this (free) service is not free either.
With 300,000 cars off the road, if you take 50 weeks of the offices being open thats 1200 cars a day to be registered.
(now not all will hit the system every year, but some will be registrered and de registered multiple times so 300k is not a bad figure of the nr of transactions)
Some cases will be straightforward and take a minute to process but some would need extensive following up, letter written phone calls made etc.
25euro is probably over the cost of what it costs, but its not free either!

I feel somewhat sorry for the vintage folks who only have their cars out in the summer but maybe they could be given a lower transaction fee OR take a leaf out of the german system that allows a vehicle to be taxed as on the road for a part of the year, but recurringly. i.e. car is only ever on the road from April to September so thats even incorporated into the numberplate that the car isnt to be used all year round.

Or maybe it should be free like water?
Water that costs 1billion euro a year to provide.
But no, thats supposed to be free and magically paid for by someone else too.

complete PS justification bull****.

What about the 300,000 cars they're NOT processing tax for ? Can we stop paying them for that time, as well ? You can't have it both ways. This is the garbage thinking that Revenue have on VRT quotes as well - they don't do them anymore as they are 'too busy' - official reason I got, in writing, from Ms Feehily, btw.

And I don't buy the IT is not free line, either. The IT capability already exists, through motortax.ie, and the there is no cost to having owners declare their stuff off the road, as it's the owner/public who'd be doing it.

Any mention of IT cost and the PS - PPARS, HSE, anyone ?

Not to mention of course, all the cars/bikes/etc that are off the road - for years, which they don't have 'live' on the system. It's like the HH tax - they're just using the public to do the legwork for them, and to create the database stick they'll then come around to beat you with.

Of course, the real answer is fair and equitable tax, instead. Imagine that - the PS don't want to spend any time or effort doing anything constructive like that though, would they ?

[Indricotherium]

Originally Posted by Voodoomelon

There'll be a lot of delighted people out there who will gladly pay €25 to declare the car off the road, as opposed to an "in-advance" system.

I think the suggestion is that the €25 will be part of declaring a car off the road in advance.

[galwaytt]

Originally Posted by corktina

do you not feel its fair for a Householder to pay towards street lighting or pavement sweeping for instance?

As regards this €25, well theres a cost to administer you declaring your car off road, is it fair that everyone without a car off road should contribute towards your cost?

Yes - if you do it.

I've lived on my road since 1997, and I've no lighting, and sweeping ? are you for real ?

So, no more money-for-jam from me.

[draffodx]

Originally Posted by corktina

do you not feel its fair for a Householder to pay towards street lighting or pavement sweeping for instance?

They already do, the household charge is just a second charge for the same thing.

Originally Posted by corktina

As regards this €25, well theres a cost to administer you declaring your car off road, is it fair that everyone without a car off road should contribute towards your cost?

Only if the tax others pay is reduced to reflect this, it won't be.

[munchkin_utd]

Originally Posted by galwaytt

<snip>
Of course, the real answer is fair and equitable tax, instead. Imagine that - the PS don't want to spend any time or effort doing anything constructive like that though, would they ?

indeed, a tax on your income - Income Tax that'd be called !
But FG/ labour promised they wont do that so they have to go the old inequitable route of indirect charges all over the shop.

Its a balls. They cant reduce pensions, Cant reduce the highest dole in the world (disagree? name ONE place with higher long term benefits) Cant cut medical cards, cant cut 100s of millions of free medicines, cant touch PS salaries, cant touch 2 billion euro of kiddies allowance and to fund all the goodies cant raise income tax which is the most equitable way of all to gather up cash.

anyhow, this still isnt the worst idea ever.
Those who will pay are still saving 100s per year in having the car off the road so all they are doing is sharing some of the savings with the taxman.

[Mr Simpson]

The current system where owners can declare their car off the road after that period before they tax it is a joke tbh. You should have to declare it as soon as you take it off the road. I don't really have a problem with a €25 charge to declare a car off the road.

[galwaytt]

Originally Posted by mmcn90

I don't really have a problem with a €25 charge to declare a car off the road.

I do. I drive a 'bike, and tax for that is €82. Why should I pay €25 to NOT use it ?

[hondasam]

I'm not totally against it tbh.
I think when declaring a car of the road then you should have to prove you also cancelled the insurance, this will sort out the ones who are genuine from the one who don't want to pay.

[galwaytt]

Originally Posted by munchkin_utd

indeed, a tax on your income - Income Tax that'd be called !
But FG/ labour promised they wont do that so they have to go the old inequitable route of indirect charges all over the shop.

Its a balls. They cant reduce pensions, Cant reduce the highest dole in the world (disagree? name ONE place with higher long term benefits) Cant cut medical cards, cant cut 100s of millions of free medicines, cant touch PS salaries, cant touch 2 billion euro of kiddies allowance and to fund all the goodies cant raise income tax which is the most equitable way of all to gather up cash.

anyhow, this still isnt the worst idea ever.
Those who will pay are still saving 100s per year in having the car off the road so all they are doing is sharing some of the savings with the taxman.

Why can't they touch them (seriously) ? If my employer goes bust, my wages and all else is gone, kaputt.

The PS employer in question, the State, is officially bankrupt, so no funds = no fun, guys. Sorry, but there's the door............the very idea that you HAVE to borrow, to pay on a losing proposition is nuts. Doesn't happen in the real world.

[Mr Simpson]

IMHO €25 aint that much. Its not free to process any form, why should it be for this.

Slightly OT, would it be possible to flag any off the road cars with the toll companies, so if they went through one, a fine would automatically issued?