[Raging_Ninja]

Examples on this page of the thread in particular.

Its the longest thread there, and definitely the most random. Simply talk about whatever is annoying you in NUIG. Anyways, somebody makes a post about economics, somebody says he likes keynesian, and somebody then goes and claims keynes was an anti-semite, therefore he is wrong.

Now the discussion is actually getting interesting, and then the off-topic warnings are issued, and posts get deleted. Naturally enough, due to that one person (Jerkov) calling people anti-semites, he's insulted. Then a few more posts on the same topic (non-offensive) are made, and posts are deleted.

I ask via PM what was wrong with discussing economics in the NUIG forum (considering we learn it in NUIG and had the discussion going on there in the forum), and am told by KittyeeTrix that there is nothing wrong with discussing economics within the correct thread. I ask that the thread is split so the discussion can continue and have still not received a response.

Due to the heavy-handedness of moderating, with OT posts being deleted rather than topics being split, there has been a bit of a backlash, with a few of us openly complaining about it. These are naturally enough deleted.

The problem is that it is a smaller forum, with a few members who post frequently along with a bunch of people who come in to ask a few questions and so on. But the discussions that can go on can be interesting, and may result in threads going off-topic. Rather than these 'offensive' posts being deleted, at least a bit off effort should be made to preserve these posts in a new thread.

It doesn't help that at least one of the mods didn't even know what 'splitting a thread' actually meant. Instead, the mod just deleted the OT posts (which were fairly good ones regarding repeat exams and their merits) and created a new thread, saying how the previous discussion was interesting, but then the previous discussion no longer exists.

Intentionally or not, the heavy-handedness is having a stifling effect on discussion on the forum.

[Bobblehead Panda]

Myself and the NUIG mods have already discussed the possibility of creating an Off-Topic Thread which might help with off-topic posts. I'm sure that they will take on board your feedback on board regarding splitting off-topic posts into new threads.

[KittyeeTrix]

Originally Posted by Raging_Ninja

Examples on this page of the thread in particular.

Its the longest thread there, and definitely the most random. Simply talk about whatever is annoying you in NUIG. Anyways, somebody makes a post about economics, somebody says he likes keynesian, and somebody then goes and claims keynes was an anti-semite, therefore he is wrong.

Now the discussion is actually getting interesting, and then the off-topic warnings are issued, and posts get deleted. Naturally enough, due to that one person (Jerkov) calling people anti-semites, he's insulted. Then a few more posts on the same topic (non-offensive) are made, and posts are deleted.

I ask via PM what was wrong with discussing economics in the NUIG forum (considering we learn it in NUIG and had the discussion going on there in the forum), and am told by KittyeeTrix that there is nothing wrong with discussing economics within the correct thread. I ask that the thread is split so the discussion can continue and have still not received a response.

Due to the heavy-handedness of moderating, with OT posts being deleted rather than topics being split, there has been a bit of a backlash, with a few of us openly complaining about it. These are naturally enough deleted.

I did not see the relevance of a bitch about some form of economics to NUIG. I believe it is much better discussion to be had in the Economics forum. If the problem was with how the subject was being taught rather than the actual content then I would see how it would have been relevant to the "bitch about NUIG" thread.
I myself studied Microbiology and there are many policies/techniques I would have issue with but these are not for discussion in the NUIG thread. These would be for the Biology Forum

The problem is that it is a smaller forum, with a few members who post frequently along with a bunch of people who come in to ask a few questions and so on. But the discussions that can go on can be interesting, and may result in threads going off-topic. Rather than these 'offensive' posts being deleted, at least a bit off effort should be made to preserve these posts in a new thread.

The thread was allowed to go slightly off-topic for a few posts before a gentle reminder to stay on-topic was made on thread. This was blatantly ignored and discussion continued. Moderating decisions were made in line with the charter and again posters have taken issue with this!!!
There was no attempt to take the conversation elsewhere at all even when it was suggested on thread by myself that this be done.

Actually, there was no attempt to discuss economics at all in any of the deleted posts so there were no actual discussion posts there to split into a new thread

It doesn't help that at least one of the mods didn't even know what 'splitting a thread' actually meant. Instead, the mod just deleted the OT posts (which were fairly good ones regarding repeat exams and their merits) and created a new thread, saying how the previous discussion was interesting, but then the previous discussion no longer exists.

Intentionally or not, the heavy-handedness is having a stifling effect on discussion on the forum.

I held my hands up during the last accusation that the Mods of NUIG forum were too heavy-handed and agreed that I had gotten it wrong with regards splitting the posts into a new one. I don't appreciate you raising that again in a totally unrelated incident, if I'm being honest!!

The forum has rules which are there to keep order for a reason. THere is only so much a Mod can turn a blind eye to and this is one of them.

I am now going to set up a separate chat type, off-topic thread to facilitate discussion of this type for the future but I would like to end my post here by saying that the posters in NUIG have to take responsibility for their own postings.

The moderation of NUIG forum will continue as it has been as myself and musical.x only respond to the posts which are placed there. If there is no problem with the posts then we wouldn't need to moderate but there seems to be a few who take issue with every single decision made and continually drag threads off-topic (deliberately at times, imo)

[Ficheall]

Originally Posted by musical.x

If you don't like the way the forum is run then don't bother posting here.

Just curious - is this the general consensus amongst the moderators?
I know the boards are privately owned, and therefore the comparison is moot - but at least the country's government were democratically elected, whatever complaints one might have about how they do things.

[Raging_Ninja]

and now the grievous sin of the 'inability to not post off-topic' has been committed, getting the thread closed.

Why? We're being treated like children, and its not going to end well. Unless you want that forum to degenerate to an FAQ section, something has to be done.

[KittyeeTrix]

Originally Posted by Raging_Ninja

and now the grievous sin of the 'inability to not post off-topic' has been committed, getting the thread closed.

Why? We're being treated like children, and its not going to end well. Unless you want that forum to degenerate to an FAQ section, something has to be done.

The thread has been closed so as to not incur any further discussion regarding moderation. It has become very apparent that certain posters cannot adhere to this within the forum and to be fair it is the Bank Holiday Weekend and we could all do without the extra moderation that goes along with the continuing off-topic posts!!
A link has been left to re-direct posters to this very thread.

I don't see how the enforcement of the charter rules is being interpreted as treating posters like children.
If there is a problem with posts then they are dealt with. If there isn't a problem, then they are left alone. It's really as simple as that....Nothing at all to do with treating ye like children.

[Raging_Ninja]

Originally Posted by KittyeeTrix

I did not see the relevance of a bitch about some form of economics to NUIG. I believe it is much better discussion to be had in the Economics forum. If the problem was with how the subject was being taught rather than the actual content then I would see how it would have been relevant to the "bitch about NUIG" thread.
I myself studied Microbiology and there are many policies/techniques I would have issue with but these are not for discussion in the NUIG thread. These would be for the Biology Forum

Well what's wrong with bringing it up in the NUIG forum? Who knows, it could be interesting to those who never go to the biology forums, create a bigger discussion amongst people in the same college as ourselves who do different courses.

The thread was allowed to go slightly off-topic for a few posts before a gentle reminder to stay on-topic was made on thread. This was blatantly ignored and discussion continued.
Moderating decisions were made in line with the charter and again posters have taken issue with this!!!
There was no attempt to take the conversation elsewhere at all even when it was suggested on thread by myself that this be done.

Well, why didn't [b]you[b/] split the topic? I asked you to and never got a response. Port the posts over to some other thread, so that the discussion can continue with previous posts. The discussion goes to where the posts are, not to an empty thread.

Actually, there was no attempt to discuss economics at all in any of the deleted posts so there were no actual discussion posts there to split into a new thread

There wasn't any discussion because you guys shut it down so quickly, issuing warnings and deleting posts, that there wasn't any time for it to develop. After a handful of posts and you guys rolled in and started slapping people down for 'posting off topic'.

I held my hands up during the last accusation that the Mods of NUIG forum were too heavy-handed and agreed that I had gotten it wrong with regards splitting the posts into a new one. I don't appreciate you raising that again in a totally unrelated incident, if I'm being honest!!

I was trying to demonstrate a pattern of heavy-handedness. I didn't want to name anyone.

The forum has rules which are there to keep order for a reason. THere is only so much a Mod can turn a blind eye to and this is one of them.

And I respect that, but there has to be leeway.

I am now going to set up a separate chat type, off-topic thread to facilitate discussion of this type for the future

Good, that's a great idea.

The moderation of NUIG forum will continue as it has been as myself and musical.x only respond to the posts which are placed there. If there is no problem with the posts then we wouldn't need to moderate but there seems to be a few who take issue with every single decision made and continually drag threads off-topic (deliberately at times, imo)

Honestly, I think its because you are going about doing things the wrong way.

[KittyeeTrix]

Originally Posted by Raging_Ninja

Well what's wrong with bringing it up in the NUIG forum? Who knows, it could be interesting to those who never go to the biology forums, create a bigger discussion amongst people in the same college as ourselves who do different courses.

Discussion of topics in a thread which are not related to the thread would serve to make the forums totally messy.
There would be no way of knowing what was contained in a particular thread or how to go about finding any information one may be looking for if topics could be addressed everywhere and anywhere.

Well, why didn't [b]you[b/] split the topic? I asked you to and never got a response. Port the posts over to some other thread, so that the discussion can continue with previous posts. The discussion goes to where the posts are, not to an empty thread.

I was posting from my moblie for the past week and should have made this clear to you when you PM'd me so apologies
I wasn't in a position to port over the posts into a split thread and for what it's worth I didn't split them into a separate thread as I still don't believe that the discussion of theories of Economics is relevant to the NUIG forum.
However, I should have as I'm saying PM'd this to you to avoid any confusion.

There wasn't any discussion because you guys shut it down so quickly, issuing warnings and deleting posts, that there wasn't any time for it to develop. After a handful of posts and you guys rolled in and started slapping people down for 'posting off topic'.

It was not allowed to develop as it was not relevant to NUIG in my opinion. It was allowed time to fizzle out naturally but as usual in the NUIG after a gentle reminder to post on-topic the "heavy-handed" moderation accusations began in ernest again leading us once again to the helpdesk!

I was trying to demonstrate a pattern of heavy-handedness. I didn't want to name anyone.

That wasn't an example of "heavy handedness" but rather an example of a mistake which was totally owned up to in the previous helpdesk.

And I respect that, but there has to be leeway.

I have tried my damndest to facilitate posters and have definitely taken on board G'em's many suggestions following the last Helpdesk thread.

I isuue non-boldened gentle directions on thread along with an individual PM to the poster in question. If these are ignored I will then issue a more strongly worded boldened warning on thread before taking an action. If a poster continues to ignore this then I'm left with no choice but to act. As such, my hands are tied in this respect. As I've previously said there is only so much as a Mod you can ignore!

Good, that's a great idea

.

Than you

Honestly, I think its because you are going about doing things the wrong way.

What exactly is the problem in your opinion? If I'm aware of it, then I can look and see if it can be improved assuming there is basis for your discontent.

I cannot commit to keeping off-topic posts in threads which are unsuitable but like the idea of the off-topic thread these concerns can be addressed and solutions worked out

[Fionn MacCool]

I think the question the mods really need to ask themselves is WHY SO SRS

It's a thread called "Bitch about NUIG". Who really gives a toss if it digresses a bit? It's not like anyone is going to get wound up because some people are talking about economics in a large thread intended for tongue in cheek giving out. Let's be honest, the mods don't care that it swerved off topic a bit, they just wanted an excuse to use their 'authority' and make another nice big post in bold. Stop being a fanny and find more important things to do with your time than piss about with the vBulletin moderator options. Nobody is impressed.

[Zaph]

Fionn MacCool, moderating a forum is difficult enough without having to endure rubbish like that in Help Desk. I hope you have a few more manners when your ban expires in a week.

[Nailz]

As another relatively frequent user of the NUIG forum, I sympathise with what Raging Ninja is saying 100%, I'm on the same page with regards how I think the direction of the forum should go; but I also sympathise with where our Moderators, or at least one of them is coming from, I can see they're only doing the job they've volunteered to do based on the guidelines which have already been set, and I don't think they can be blamed for their actions in terms of following those rules.

But I, and the regulars (or those of whom have spoken out, at least) do have a valid point in my opinion concerning the lenience, or lack there of, to which it is moderated. To say the the thread would descend into a mess if it wasn't moderated in such a way, I believe is complete nonsense. I am of the opinion that all threads are bound to lead to off-topic discussions eventually, especially if the thread in question is as long as the "Bitch About..." thread in the NUIG forum. I think in such situations, especially in terms of the recent economics discussion, the discussion should be left to play out, as it can be a very interesting and somewhat educational conversation among the users, and when it is believed the topic has run its course, the mod should then step in and run it back on-topic. It was hardly given the chance to go that far, attempting to drag it into a different forum, even a different thread I think, kills that discussion. That is the fast track to, as Raging Ninja would put it, turning the forum into a FAQ section.

I also applaud the principal of an Off-Topic thread, and I'm glad to see that one has been started, I believe all forums should have one, but I am of the opinion as well that it is difficult to carry over a discussion from one thread to another, especially considering most discussions arise spontaneously, yet somewhat related to its thread of origin, I for one would find that hard to overcome, although I do welcome and support attempts for such a thing in the form of the Off-Topic thread.

I would like for Ficheall's question to be addressed as well, because I frankly find that quote laughable.

[KittyeeTrix]

Originally Posted by Nailz

As another relatively frequent user of the NUIG forum, I sympathise with what Raging Ninja is saying 100%, I'm on the same page with regards how I think the direction of the forum should go; but I also sympathise with where our Moderators, or at least one of them is coming from, I can see they're only doing the job they've volunteered to do based on the guidelines which have already been set, and I don't think they can be blamed for their actions in terms of following those rules.

I have no problem at all implementing the rules as they are set out in the NUIG charter and for the most part the several other posters seem to have absolutely no problem following them either. There exists a tiny subset however who seem to be continually unable to comply with these rules. I have discovered already in the short time that I've been moderating that any laxness at all with regards the charter is not necessarily a good thing and can leave a Mod open to all sorts of accusations regarding consistency.
For that reason I've made my post very clear with regards any moderation decisions I make.

But I, and the regulars (or those of whom have spoken out, at least) do have a valid point in my opinion concerning the lenience, or lack there of, to which it is moderated. To say the the thread would descend into a mess if it wasn't moderated in such a way, I believe is complete nonsense. I am of the opinion that all threads are bound to lead to off-topic discussions eventually, especially if the thread in question is as long as the "Bitch About..." thread in the NUIG forum. I think in such situations, especially in terms of the recent economics discussion, the discussion should be left to play out, as it can be a very interesting and somewhat educational conversation among the users, and when it is believed the topic has run its course, the mod should then step in and run it back on-topic. It was hardly given the chance to go that far, attempting to drag it into a different forum, even a different thread I think, kills that discussion. That is the fast track to, as Raging Ninja would put it, turning the forum into a FAQ section.

I can understand your concerns with regards the stifling of off-topic discussion and so hopefully now the provision of a off-topic thread will prevent this.
I do think it is necessary however to not allow a thread just roll on once it has gone very much off-topic. Where does it end? It could very well meander from one off-topic point to another.
My point being that if threads were allowed to just meander on without any type of charter control then the title of a thread would not necessarily contain relevant information. Surely, you must see where I'm coming from????
The discussion pertaining to economics was gently asked to be discontinued. It was suggested by myself that it could be carried on elsewhere (economics forum) which to my knowledge it wasn't.
Posters would complain in the past that it takes them good time to repost elsewhere but at the same time seem to have plenty of time to write posts concerning the moderation

I also applaud the principal of an Off-Topic thread, and I'm glad to see that one has been started, I believe all forums should have one, but I am of the opinion as well that it is difficult to carry over a discussion from one thread to another, especially considering most discussions arise spontaneously, yet somewhat related to its thread of origin, I for one would find that hard to overcome, although I do welcome and support attempts for such a thing in the form of the Off-Topic thread.

Seriously, how difficult can it be to continue a discussion in another thread? I personally think it is much more difficult to negotiate a thread on a particular topic which is cluttered with all sorts of off-topic posts..

I would like for Ficheall's question to be addressed as well, because I frankly find that quote laughable.

I can totally see where musical.x was coming from when she posted her response. It was a joke the amount of continued posting that went on from a small minority when she had expressly asked for it to be discontinued. It again goes totally against the charter to completely ignore a mod instruction repeatedly on-thread and quite frankly I'm surprised there were no bans handed out.
I fear if I had been online that I would not have been quite as lenient as she was!!

Moderating is not an easy gig as I have definitely discovered but I am now confident in what I am doing and so I will leave it with the CMods/helpdesk mods and again take on board any direction they may feel is appropriate.

[J o e]

As another regular on the NUIG forum I'd like to add my disappointment and frustration that the forum is recently having the life moderated out of it.

You'll see some clear rule-breaking on threads recently after warnings but this is just from the frustration of posters knowing that yet another discussion is being muted.

Originally Posted by Raging_Ninja

Why? We're being treated like children, and its not going to end well. Unless you want that forum to degenerate to an FAQ section, something has to be done.

Agreed completely with Raging_Ninja on the FAQ comment. If someone starts a thread it seems responses must be a specific answer to the question or they're getting posts deleted and/or thread closed. No discussion allowed!!

Here's a few examples (which I have brought up with KittyeeTrix already by PM)...

Example 1: "Repeating 4th year science"
Part of the OP was "Like my results won't just be capped at something like 40% even if I get say 70%?? (I know they do this for some repeat exams which I think is abit mean but anyway)"
I post "Completely agree on capping all repeats at 40% too.
I think deferrals should only be granted in exceptional circumstances anyway (good medical reasons) and should be able to get full marks"... post gets DELETED.
IMO this line of discussion isn't off topic, especially since the OP stated their own view on it in the first post.

Example 2: "Titrations"
The OP asks for help with Titrations.
KittyeeTrix replies with "Open up your chemistry manual, google or get a hold of Leaving Cert Chemistry book assuming you are in 1st year." or to go to the Phys/Chem forum. Kittyee then CLOSED the thread!! Why?!
This is an NUIG student looking for advice from other NUIG students. Students who have studies Chemistry in NUIG will know what's expected and taught here.

Example 3: "Need help with applied maths question for test tommorow"
The OP posts a question they're having trouble with.
RolandIRL posts a reply and the thread is CLOSED. Other posters could have expanded on that answer or explained it better, or the OP could have responded with follow up discussions.
When I asked KittyeeTrix by PM why it was closed I'm told "Roland is a very able mathematician and so I closed the thread. The last thing I felt someone needs is a variety of people giving several different answers to a Question (especially right before an exam)and muddling their head"
We need to limit information here in case we muddle our heads?? Alternative approaches can be a very good thing, as my Maths teacher always taught us "Question assumptions and generate alternatives". It'd rather the mods don't decide when we've had enough knowledge on any topic!

There is of course also the farse of the NUIG SU elections thread, where people had to post on a different thread to disclose their interests before discussing the elections. Anyone who didn't or missed the mod comment to do so: BANNED. Sure how do you know if declared interests or affiliations are true....? Pointless.

Anyway the moderation in NUIG just isn't working out. The mod has clashed with most regular contributors to the forum by this stage. NUIG should be a discussion forum, not a Q&A site.

[J o e]

Also, while an "off-topic" thread is a good idea... with the current moderation I can see a lot of on-topic comments being thrown in there instead of allowing natural discussions on a topic developing in a thread.

[Ficheall]

Originally Posted by J o e

Anyway the moderation in NUIG just isn't working out. The mod has clashed with most regular contributors to the forum by this stage. NUIG should be a discussion forum, not a Q&A site.

There does seem to be some confusion as to the purpose of the NUIG forum. eg.

Originally Posted by musical.x

the point of the forum is to help people. If you do not want to help then do not reply to a post.Simple.

Perhaps if this were addressed, it might help?