[molloyjh]

Originally Posted by GarIT

That is all part of it though. Ireland is a free state and if Ireland decided to go into debit nobody should be able to tell us otherwise. I'll admit this is one of the better treaties, on one hand it makes sense but on the other it gives Europe more power, probably only a tiny amount but its still more than previously. That's why I would much prefer if it was applied by our own people and not Europe.

The problem being we've demonstrated a complete inability to do so. Worse still we are not accepting the proper level of responsibility for our f-ups, which points to a dangerous lack of learning from ones own mistakes.

Originally Posted by GarIT

All that said this is about the propaganda and its not the thread for discussing how to vote.

Indeed...there's enough in that topic alone to keep us well busy/amused!

[C14N]

Originally Posted by The Waltzing Consumer

The only comparison I can think of is Birthers in America, a racist violent ignorant undercurrent is present. For the Birthers, African Americans, arabs etc., for the No camp, Europe, Germany and anyone who disagrees with them.

I honestly thought it was just pretty similar to the Republican/Fox coalition. Thankfully, at least here dangerous levels of misinformation is limited to fringe groups like the Socialist Party and the United Left Alliance (kind of comically since they take the exact opposite stance of the aforementioned Republicans).

[C14N]

Originally Posted by antoobrien

I'm sure we can contact the press officers in UEFA, the FAI & PFA (the player is probably a member) to see if they could play ball

No sooner had I read your post than someone else posted this:

Party [Sinn Fein] facing wrath of UEFA over Euro 2012 treaty poster.

Quite amusing imo.

[ninja900]

Originally Posted by GarIT

That is all part of it though. Ireland is a free state and if Ireland decided to go into debit nobody should be able to tell us otherwise.

And if we had our own currency we could do precisely that.* We voted to enter the single currency 20 years ago (Maastricht Treaty) and there were rules in there about how eurozone governments were supposed to behave to avoid destabilising the currency.
Problem was the rules were too weak, and the enforcement of them was non-existent.

it gives Europe more power, probably only a tiny amount but its still more than previously.

Arguably so tiny that we don't really need to be voting on this at all. I'd have been happy to have the government pass a Bill to implement this, and then ring up Michael D and suggest that he refer it to the Supreme Court. It's not at all certain that the Supreme Court would have rejected it as unconstitutional.
But, politically that probably wouldn't have played well as the No-to-everything types were already kicking up about being 'denied our referendum'... sigh..



* At the cost of perpetually much higher interest rates, and less foreign investment due to exchange risk. There is rarely any course of action for a government which doesn't have a downside...

[Stabshauptmann]

Originally Posted by C14N

Or just irrelevant, don't forget that one.
But then there is no yes campaign for jobs as far as I'm aware. The Yes campaign is for "stability". It's hard to know for sure if it will work, but it probably will. Either way, it's not misinformation or lies.

The only honest thing that can be said about this vote is: This treaty consolidates rules on Government Debt, and Budget Deficits for eurozone countries into one treaty, and makes some of them "tighter". The stated aim is to stabilise the euro by preventing excessive debt and deficits.

Then people could debate whether those measures are reasonable and whether they will work. (In my opinion, no and possibly respectively).

[molloyjh]

Does anyone reckon ROG thinks that this Treaty is above international standard?

* - hoping people here get the joke....

[meglome]

Originally Posted by molloyjh

Does anyone reckon ROG thinks that this Treaty is above international standard?

* - hoping people here get the joke....

Okay fair enough I'm drunk but I don't get it.

[the_syco]

Originally Posted by Scofflaw

You can claim that the EU will invade Ireland, you can claim that Fine Gael will turn off gravity, or that Merkel will blot out the sun.

Any idea how much it costs to print out a poster? This would make a great "Vote No" poster

Originally Posted by later12

I for one am v. excited about all of the jobs and investment that are going to start rolling in on June 1st. In fact I can hardly contain myself.

They're already here. If the "No" vote wins, they'll be leaving quickly, though.

[PopeBuckfastXVI]

Joe Higgins doesn't do irony...

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0601/fis...-to-begin.html

Joe Higgins has said this has been one of the most shameful campaigns, with fear as a major tool of the Government.

[C14N]

Originally Posted by PopeBuckfastXVI

Joe Higgins doesn't do irony...

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0601/fis...-to-begin.html

I don't understand that man. He likes to act like he is one of the people and he has the working man's best interests at heart, yet he (or at least his party) deliberately misleads them and scares them with this litter so he can get what he wants.

Does he not think the No case is strong enough that the working class will vote for it based on truth or does he simply not trust them to agree with him on everything?

[PopeBuckfastXVI]

Originally Posted by C14N

I don't understand that man. He likes to act like he is one of the people and he has the working man's best interests at heart, yet he (or at least his party) deliberately misleads them and scares them with this litter so he can get what he wants.

Does he not think the No case is strong enough that the working class will vote for it based on truth or does he simply not trust them to agree with him on everything?

Actually, I don't believe he has any respect for their intelligence or ability to discern the truth or complexity of a matter, hence the big scary poster campaign, and the lies and half truths.

[evercloserunion]

The Jaws one was one of the most hilariously bad posters of the campaign.

[meglome]

Originally Posted by PopeBuckfastXVI

Joe Higgins doesn't do irony...

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0601/fis...-to-begin.html

I really truly don't get this. The no campaign generally seem to have no issue with lying or misdirection if the no campaign is doing it. Actually they don't even seem to see it.

We all should be against all of the lying and misdirection, doesn't matter who is doing it.

Originally Posted by evercloserunion

The Jaws one was one of the most hilariously bad posters of the campaign.

It's a great poster as such, ignoring the lying on it obviously.

[meglome]

Meant to say at the time but I had gone through Cabra in Dublin and there were even more posters of the same vein as I posted in my OP. Some had the local Sinn Feins guys mug on them.

Without doubt this is the worst of all the referendum campaigns poster wise, by just pure volume alone.

Does anyone think the system can be changed for the next referendum?

Ban posters entirely.... Fact checking... limits on where/how much external funding parties can get.

[Richard tea]

Originally Posted by meglome

Meant to say at the time but I had gone through Cabra in Dublin and there were even more posters of the same vein as I posted in my OP. Some had the local Sinn Feins guys mug on them.

Without doubt this is the worst of all the referendum campaigns poster wise, by just pure volume alone.

Does anyone think the system can be changed for the next referendum?

Ban posters entirely.... Fact checking... limits on where/how much external funding parties can get.

I would welcome the banning of posters. Fact checking would kill both sides of a campaign, lets be honest about it. Funding wise, im not sureif I would change this process.