[The Radiator]

I think a thread dedicated to the greatest musicians of all time (imo) is in order. Feel free to post you favourite Beatles songs.

PS Please don't turn this into a bitch fest or argument, if you don't like them don't post

[rcaz]

I don't think it's possible to claim anyone is the 'greatest musician of all time' without getting arguments.

And if you're not allowed post here just 'cause you don't like them, won't we be missing out on a lot of discussion? Those discussions could be the most interesting ones.

Actually, the OP is pretty directionless, was there a particular kind of discussion you wanted to start? Or just let's all talk about how great they were?

I think the Beatles are pretty good, some of their stuff is fantastic, some of it I don't like at all. I don't think they're the greatest musicians of all time, though. But then who could answer that question definitively?

[The Radiator]

I just meant that I didn't want the thread to descend into:

"The Beatles are crap"

"No, they're not"

"Yes, they are" etc etc

Which tends to happen quite a bit. Perhaps I phrased it poorly in the OP.
Intelligent and educated discussion is welcome just so long as it isn't one line statements such as that above

[rcaz]

You probably know much more about them than I do, could you sum up exactly why you reckon they're the best musicians ever? I know it's said everywhere that they're the best band ever in popular music so far, but not much is usually said about the details that actually make them that good. What do you reckon really make them the best?

[The Radiator]

During the week of April 4, 1964, The Beatles occupied the top five positions on the Billboard Hot 100 singles chart (12 in the Hot 100), the top 2 positions on the albums chart, the no. 1 position in the British singles chart, the first two positions in the British albums chart and the no. 1 position in the British EP chart, – the most complete domination of the British and American charts in history. Today, you’re lucky to have one top 10 album and single at the same time.

To date, the Beatles have sold over 1 billion records. That’s billion, with a B.
They have the most no. 1 albums in the British album charts (15), and 17 No. 1 hits.

They hold the record for the group with the longest span between no. 1 albums in the Billboard albums chart (36 years and 51 weeks, 1964 to 2001). In 2000 – 20 years after John Lennon was killed, their greatest hits compilation, 1, spent eight weeks at no. 1 and sold 13 million copies in its first month of release.

They boast 20 No. 1 hits in the United States, (19 No. 1 albums), with 24 consecutive Top 10 hits from 1964 to 1976 (six years after they broke up), a record for a group. They also have 12 no. 1 hits in Germany, 23 in Australia, 21 in the Netherlands, 22 in Canada, and 13 in Malaysia.
According to the United World Chart, the Beatles have 16 of the 100 most successful tracks of all time, and also 7 of the 100 most successful albums in history.

The Beatles recorded four of the Top 10 Greatest Albums of All Time, according to Rolling Stone magazine, and three of the Top Five. (I will ignore the fact that Abbey Road was only No. 14. Blasphemy.)

They were ground-breaking pioneers almost from the beginning, being the first group ever to employ feedback in 1964′s “I Feel Fine.” One of their first hits, “A Hard Day’s Night,” features an opening chord so revolutionary that people are still trying to figure out. 1965′s Rubber Soul and the follow-up, Revolver, saw more innovation, from the use of a sitar in “Norwegian Wood” to tape loops in “Tomorrow Never Knows.” Then there are the backwards vocals in “Rain” (a first) and a Moog synthesizer on several songs on 1969′s Abbey Road.

Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Heart’s Club Band is arguably the greatest album ever made (indeed, it topped Rolling Stone‘s list). While it doesn’t have the strongest material, the album was a landmark in recording. It popularized the concept album – something that would serve as inspiration to The Who and Pink Floyd.

“A Day in the Life” from Sgt. Pepper may have been the crowning achievement of the group – a five and a half minute song composed of two suites – one by Lennon, one by Paul McCartney – that are totally different in sound and texture, yet complement each other perfectly. The song features two cacophonous crescendos from an orchestra, the final one climaxing in a single E major piano chord that lasts 42 seconds.

One may not like songs such as “Yesterday” and “Hey Jude,” but they are unrivaled in their popularity, and the melodies are unforgettable.
Paul McCartney actually dreamed the tune to “Yesterday.”
“Helter Skelter” and “I Want You (She’s So Heavy)” are considered two of the first heavy metal songs.

They have 23 of the Top 500 songs of all time, again according to Rolling Stone - the most of any artist.
Their iconic No. 1 singles notwithstanding (“Love Me Do”, “From Me to You”, “She Loves You”, “I Want to Hold Your Hand”, “Can’t Buy Me Love”, “A Hard Day’s Night”, “I Feel Fine”, “Eight Days a Week”, “Ticket to Ride”, “Help!”, “Yesterday”, “Day Tripper”, “We Can Work It Out”, “Paperback Writer”, “Yellow Submarine”, “Eleanor Rigby”, “Penny Lane”, “All You Need Is Love”, “Hello, Goodbye”, “Lady Madonna”, “Hey Jude”, “Get Back”, “The Ballad of John and Yoko”, “Something”, “Come Together”, “Let It Be” and “The Long and Winding Road”), some of their best songs weren’t even on any singles or B-sides: “I Should Have Known Better,” “You Won’t See Me,” “For No One,” “Across the Universe,” “Two of Us,” “Dear Prudence,” and “Because” are all just album filler.

They revolutionized the science of recording, using multiple tracks instead of playing live. Producer George Martin used varying tape speeds to make Lennon’s voice sound high (“Tomorrow Never Knows”) and slow (“Strawberry Fields Forever”); he also brought in string musicians to accompany certain songs (“Yesterday”). In another session, McCartney utilized bass drums halfway down a corridor to achieve a staccato sound in “Mother Nature’s Son.”

In an age where other people wrote songs for the flavor of the day – think the Brill Building songwriters doing all the work for the Shangri-Las and the Dixie Cups – The Beatles surprised everyone by penning their own hits from the beginning. As a result, they helped usher the singer-songwriter movement that popularized the late 1960s.

Their ability to cross over from media and teen idols to musical innovators is one-of-a-kind. Their chart success is unparalleled; but despite their popularity, they managed to continue to improve throughout their career.
Their place in popular culture is unrivaled – Their movies, their appearance on the Ed Sullivan Show (in which they played to 74 million people), the “bigger than Jesus” comment, the refusal to play in concert after 1966, the Maharishi, the painstaking production work, the beginnings of the drug culture and LSD fad, “Helter Skelter” and Charles Manson, the “Paul is Dead” phenomenon, Yoko Ono, the rooftop concert, the cover of Abbey Road, the subsequent solo years, and the hit singles created from rough demos of the late Lennon.
They accomplished all this in seven years.

[Basq]

I can use copy and paste too!

[The Radiator]

What's your point?

[Basq]

Originally Posted by The Radiator

What's your point?

Originally Posted by rcaz

What do YOU reckon really make them the best?

rcaz asked you your opinion.. not the opinions of someone else.

[The Radiator]

I agree with it all, don't have the time to be writing proper in depth replies

[hidinginthebush]

A day in the life is one of my favourite songs of all time. I tried to hate them for years, but it was Eleanor Rigby that got me into them at last. Great band, and who can argue with the coolness of George Harrison and his best (IMO) song while my guitar gently weeps. One of my fondest memories of being a child was one day in my granny's house, I kept getting her to play help over and over, it was the first song I ever liked, and makes amaaym reminds me of her now since she passed away.

Most importantly, Ringo did the narration for Thomas the tank engine for a while. Legend!

Maybe not the best band of all time, I too, can't stand some of their stuff, but they're pretty good all the same. Some people do absolutely hate them though.

[The Radiator]

What parts of their work do you guys not like? I was hooked on their early stuff and every album I listened to just kept getting better and better

[rcaz]

Just picking out a few of those points...

Originally Posted by The Radiator

During the week of April 4, 1964, The Beatles occupied the top five positions on the Billboard Hot 100 singles chart (12 in the Hot 100), the top 2 positions on the albums chart, the no. 1 position in the British singles chart, the first two positions in the British albums chart and the no. 1 position in the British EP chart, – the most complete domination of the British and American charts in history. Today, you’re lucky to have one top 10 album and single at the same time.

To date, the Beatles have sold over 1 billion records. That’s billion, with a B.
They have the most no. 1 albums in the British album charts (15), and 17 No. 1 hits.

They hold the record for the group with the longest span between no. 1 albums in the Billboard albums chart (36 years and 51 weeks, 1964 to 2001). In 2000 – 20 years after John Lennon was killed, their greatest hits compilation, 1, spent eight weeks at no. 1 and sold 13 million copies in its first month of release.

They boast 20 No. 1 hits in the United States, (19 No. 1 albums), with 24 consecutive Top 10 hits from 1964 to 1976 (six years after they broke up), a record for a group. They also have 12 no. 1 hits in Germany, 23 in Australia, 21 in the Netherlands, 22 in Canada, and 13 in Malaysia.
According to the United World Chart, the Beatles have 16 of the 100 most successful tracks of all time, and also 7 of the 100 most successful albums in history.

The Beatles recorded four of the Top 10 Greatest Albums of All Time, according to Rolling Stone magazine, and three of the Top Five. (I will ignore the fact that Abbey Road was only No. 14. Blasphemy.)

They're popular, they've sold lots of records... That doesn't say anything about them being a good band. Charts and record sales don't say anything about any musical ability or artistic merit, and I don't think we need to argue that point.

Originally Posted by The Radiator

They were ground-breaking pioneers almost from the beginning, being the first group ever to employ feedback in 1964′s “I Feel Fine.” One of their first hits, “A Hard Day’s Night,” features an opening chord so revolutionary that people are still trying to figure out. 1965′s Rubber Soul and the follow-up, Revolver, saw more innovation, from the use of a sitar in “Norwegian Wood” to tape loops in “Tomorrow Never Knows.” Then there are the backwards vocals in “Rain” (a first) and a Moog synthesizer on several songs on 1969′s Abbey Road.

Playing a sitar is innovative? Using a tape loop is innovative? They didn't invent sitars or tape loops... I don't get that. You don't get called an innovator by selecting the right tool for a job.

Originally Posted by The Radiator

Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Heart’s Club Band is arguably the greatest album ever made (indeed, it topped Rolling Stone‘s list). While it doesn’t have the strongest material...

What??

Originally Posted by The Radiator

One may not like songs such as “Yesterday” and “Hey Jude,” but they are unrivaled in their popularity, and the melodies are unforgettable.

Again, being popular doesn't inherently make you a fantastic musician. Neither does coming up with a catchy melody.

Originally Posted by The Radiator

They revolutionized the science of recording, using multiple tracks instead of playing live. Producer George Martin used varying tape speeds to make Lennon’s voice sound high (“Tomorrow Never Knows”) and slow (“Strawberry Fields Forever”)

No they didn't, this stuff was being done - to much greater effect - with musique concrete (guys like Pierre Schaeffer and Pierre Henry) since the 1940s.

[karaokeman]

Like most of the stuff on their later albums, not so much the earlier material.

Love songs like Happiness Is A Warm Gun, Hey Jude, Sgt Peppers, We Can Work It Out, All You Need Is Love, great pop tunes in their own right, most of them have great meaning attached.

I think there will always be a large proportion of people believing the Beatles are the greatest musicians of all time.

I don't know how one can claim a band is the best ever, unless anyone has actually heard every song by every talented band who ever lived.

I find it easier to talk about musicians that are your favourite, and as you hear new bands your opinion could constantly change because you are being exposed to more and more.

Seen as how your such a massive Beatles fan, here's a few points you might find debatable.

The Beatles were NOT the first band to have full control in the studio, The Beach Boys were
The last half of Abbey Road was a reaction to Brian Wilson's ability to produce world class songs
McCartney admitted without Pet Sounds, they never would have made Sgt Pepper's and the Beatles album was an attempt to equal the Beach Boys one
Bob Dylan introduced the Beatles to drugs and listening to him inspired them to write, before that they did a lot of 50s pop covers
It was Frank Zappa's Freak Out that made the Beatles go down an experimental route

[kunst nugget]

Originally Posted by rcaz

Just picking out a few of those points...

Playing a sitar is innovative? Using a tape loop is innovative? They didn't invent sitars or tape loops... I don't get that. You don't get called an innovator by selecting the right tool for a job.

Again, being popular doesn't inherently make you a fantastic musician. Neither does coming up with a catchy melody.

Originally Posted by rcaz

No they didn't, this stuff was being done - to much greater effect - with musique concrete (guys like Pierre Schaeffer and Pierre Henry) since the 1940s.

I think the most important thing about the Beatles is that they were experimenters - they were a pop band first and foremost but they were willing to absorb different sounds and influences and meld them to their sound and they showed a willingness to not play it safe. That's probably why there is no one perfect Beatles - because they're is always one or two clangers in there - but it shows they were restless and willing to try out anything in their quest for making music. It's pretty rare to see bands let their guard down and do whatever they feel like without consequence for critics, fans or coolness. Especially when they were the biggest band in the world at the time.

They might not invented the techniques that they and their engineers brought to Tomorrow Never Knows or Strawberry Fields but the were innovative in that they brought them to pop music - much like we'd see with the likes of Radiohead in more modern times - and in doing so help to elevate pop music as an art form and give it a gravitas it didn't have before. All the while playing with whimsy and reckless abandon like schoolchildren.

So all the plaudits they have gotten for selling lots of records are great and all but it is really what they helped to achieve in pushing the boundaries of pop and rock music and melding previously unused influences and sounds to chart hits and melodic pop. Something that's had a lasting influence to this day and surely accords them legendary status.

That's my take on it anyway.

[kunst nugget]

Originally Posted by karaokeman

Seen as how your such a massive Beatles fan, here's a few points you might find debatable.

The Beatles were NOT the first band to have full control in the studio, The Beach Boys were

A bit of a potayto potahto one that tbf.

Originally Posted by karaokeman

The last half of Abbey Road was a reaction to Brian Wilson's ability to produce world class songs

Not really. It was more a pragmatic exercise in tying all their half finished songs together but what a lovely bit of pragmatism.

Originally Posted by karaokeman

McCartney admitted without Pet Sounds, they never would have made Sgt Pepper's and the Beatles album was an attempt to equal the Beach Boys one

And it was Revolver that inspired Wilson to write Pet Sounds. It was a sparring match of creativity that both sides benefited from. Well until Brian went mad.

Originally Posted by karaokeman

Bob Dylan introduced the Beatles to drugs and listening to him inspired them to write, before that they did a lot of 50s pop covers

Not strictly true, while they brought in folk into their sound and have always said he was an influence I think it's a wee bit short sighted to say he was the one influence that made them change their sound. He was one of many.

Originally Posted by karaokeman

It was Frank Zappa's Freak Out that made the Beatles go down an experimental route

Well considering that it came out in June of 66 and Revolver came out in July 66 with it's musique concrete influences evident on Tomorrow Never Knows and the small cut and paste tape experiments on Yellow Submarine, I doubt you can point to that record as the inspiration for their experimentation