[OldNotWIse]

Originally Posted by Babybuff

The point has obviously gone over your head.

Obviously

[OldNotWIse]

Originally Posted by feckedformocks

perhaps a dictionary might help?

There are plenty of online ones if you're looking

[Babybuff]

Originally Posted by OldNotWIse

Obviously

yeah, I'm out. well done on your contribution to this constructive and educational thread.

[feckedformocks]

Oh yes, to be honest I'm not really bothered to write such a lengthy response as you. I'm sorry, I have clearly offended your feelings, I hope that you can get over this. Once again I am sorry.

[ViveLaVie]

Originally Posted by feckedformocks

Oh yes, to be honest I'm not really bothered to write such a lengthy response as you. I'm sorry, I have clearly offended your feelings, I hope that you can get over this. Once again I am sorry.

I'm not sure as you haven't quoted anything, but I think you may be talking to me here? I'm not actually offended, I just was interested in debating this with you as it is clear we have very different ideas of what motivates sexual orientation. IMO it is a biological motivation. My body works in such a way that I am sexually attracted to men. In your argument, it seemed to me that you were saying a possible motivation for me being heterosexual was a psychological one i.e. I *may* have chosen to incline more towards heterosexuality as a preferred orientation due to psychological and societal pressures. IMO this would question my sexuality. Your stance would be that really I'm bisexual, and I have only chosen heterosexuality. In the same way, a homosexual would choose it. I contend this. I would like you to enter back into the debate, after all the point of this thread is to debate the question. Apologies if my earlier post seemed aggressive or offended you in any way.

[feckedformocks]

Originally Posted by ViveLaVie

I'm not sure as you haven't quoted anything, but I think you may be talking to me here? I'm not actually offended, I just was interested in debating this with you as it is clear we have very different ideas of what motivates sexual orientation. IMO it is a biological motivation. My body works in such a way that I am sexually attracted to men. In your argument, it seemed to me that you were saying a possible motivation for me being heterosexual was a psychological one i.e. I *may* have chosen to incline more towards heterosexuality as a preferred orientation due to psychological and societal pressures. IMO this would question my sexuality. Your stance would be that really I'm bisexual, and I have only chosen heterosexuality. In the same way, a homosexual would choose it. I contend this. I would like you to enter back into the debate, after all the point of this thread is to debate the question. Apologies if my earlier post seemed aggressive or offended you in any way.

Not at all, I just don't have time to as I should really be studying for my exams instead of engaging in such debates. I am really quite surprised to see such a huge response in contention with my opinion, so perhaps I am wrong, but it is not fair to settle on either opinion as being right at the moment without the acknowledgment that there is no real evidence to support either view.

[OldNotWIse]

Originally Posted by ViveLaVie

I'm not sure as you haven't quoted anything, but I think you may be talking to me here? I'm not actually offended, I just was interested in debating this with you as it is clear we have very different ideas of what motivates sexual orientation. IMO it is a biological motivation. My body works in such a way that I am sexually attracted to men. In your argument, it seemed to me that you were saying a possible motivation for me being heterosexual was a psychological one i.e. I *may* have chosen to incline more towards heterosexuality as a preferred orientation due to psychological and societal pressures. IMO this would question my sexuality. Your stance would be that really I'm bisexual, and I have only chosen heterosexuality. In the same way, a homosexual would choose it. I contend this. I would like you to enter back into the debate, after all the point of this thread is to debate the question. Apologies if my earlier post seemed aggressive or offended you in any way.

It's hard to know, there seems to be some aversion to the "quote" button this afternoon. I thought it was aimed at me lol

I identify as gay and know that it was certainly not a choice. Why would I have chosen such a difficult adolescence for myself? If asked a few years ago if I would change given the chance, I would have said yes. (Now it's not so clear cut because I love my girlfriend very much so being able to change would mean losing her). The notion that we are all on some kind of bisexual "hinge" and decide to lean one way or another depending on our perception of how easy/difficult it is to live a gay life is not one I can take seriously. I remember being absolutely horrified when I found out what the prince and princess got up to when they rode off into the sunset on horseback I'd always wanted to be a princess up to that point

[feckedformocks]

Originally Posted by OldNotWIse

It's hard to know, there seems to be some aversion to the "quote" button this afternoon. I thought it was aimed at me lol

I identify as gay and know that it was certainly not a choice. Why would I have chosen such a difficult adolescence for myself? If asked a few years ago if I would change given the chance, I would have said yes. (Now it's not so clear cut because I love my girlfriend very much so being able to change would mean losing her). The notion that we are all on some kind of bisexual "hinge" and decide to lean one way or another depending on our perception of how easy/difficult it is to live a gay life is not one I can take seriously. I remember being absolutely horrified when I found out what the prince and princess got up to when they rode off into the sunset on horseback I'd always wanted to be a princess up to that point

I hope that my use of the quote button will satiate your angry appetite for quotes.

There seems to be a misinterpretation of what I wanted to convey, perhaps my message was not eloquently expressed with the clarity I was desirous to provide. I do not believe that sexual orientation is dictated solely on choosing the easier option. In my original quote I was talking in reference to why heterosexuality is so prevalent. If heterosexuals do not have strong feelings or inclinations for a same sex relationship then why would they actively choose it given that they face possible discrimination and they are able to procreate freely in a relationship with the opp sex.
My message was that we all biologically have the capacity for a same sex relationship. And as somebody else pointed out if it is a choice at all, it is not a conscious one.

[ViveLaVie]

Originally Posted by OldNotWIse

It's hard to know, there seems to be some aversion to the "quote" button this afternoon. I thought it was aimed at me lol

I identify as gay and know that it was certainly not a choice. Why would I have chosen such a difficult adolescence for myself? If asked a few years ago if I would change given the chance, I would have said yes. (Now it's not so clear cut because I love my girlfriend very much so being able to change would mean losing her). The notion that we are all on some kind of bisexual "hinge" and decide to lean one way or another depending on our perception of how easy/difficult it is to live a gay life is not one I can take seriously. I remember being absolutely horrified when I found out what the prince and princess got up to when they rode off into the sunset on horseback I'd always wanted to be a princess up to that point

Absolutely! I remember fancying Zach from Saved By The Bell when I was just four! Would've liked to ride off into the sunset with him (maybe when older than four though lol) As you say, why would you choose such a difficult adolescence? If you chose to be gay in a society where it is not as accepted as heterosexuality why not choose to remain *biologically true* to yourself and be bisexual? It doesn't really make sense as an argument. Likewise, I don't think I am straight only because it's the easier choice. IMO we are all born with our orientation. I was born straight as much as you were born gay. To me, each of our orientations is equally valid and biologically natural.

[Babybuff]

Originally Posted by feckedformocks

I hope that my use of the quote button will satiate your angry appetite for quotes.

There seems to be a misinterpretation of what I wanted to convey, perhaps my message was not eloquently expressed with the clarity I was desirous to provide. I do not believe that sexual orientation is dictated solely on choosing the easier option. In my original quote I was talking in reference to why heterosexuality is so prevalent. If heterosexuals do not have strong feelings or inclinations for a same sex relationship then why would they actively choose it given that they face possible discrimination and they are able to procreate freely in a relationship with the opp sex.
My message was that we all biologically have the capacity for a same sex relationship. And as somebody else pointed out if it is a choice at all, it is not a conscious one.

I'm a reluctant fundamentalist. I identify as queer ( as oppose to lgb or t) and I understand that you don't imply psychological choices to be interpreted as a conscious ones. Individual Lgbt views should not be regarded as representing everyone, no one else out there can speak for me. I also don't believe my orientation should be considered any less valid because of it.

[ViveLaVie]

Originally Posted by feckedformocks

I hope that my use of the quote button will satiate your angry appetite for quotes.

There seems to be a misinterpretation of what I wanted to convey, perhaps my message was not eloquently expressed with the clarity I was desirous to provide. I do not believe that sexual orientation is dictated solely on choosing the easier option. In my original quote I was talking in reference to why heterosexuality is so prevalent. If heterosexuals do not have strong feelings or inclinations for a same sex relationship then why would they actively choose it given that they face possible discrimination and they are able to procreate freely in a relationship with the opp sex.
My message was that we all biologically have the capacity for a same sex relationship. And as somebody else pointed out if it is a choice at all, it is not a conscious one.

It just makes it a bit easier to know you you're talking to then.


The fact remains, that even if the choice is unconscious, the psychological motivations for making this choice are the same. You have mentioned discrimination, procreation and societal pressures as influences on these choices. I don't believe that I unconsciously tended towards heterosexuality above bisexuality or homosexuality. In this line of thinking, bisexuals are the only people who are not subject to psychological or societal pressures? Why would this be?


I do not believe I ever had the capacity for a bisexual or homosexual relationship as IMO I was born straight. If I accept your argument, then that means my sexual orientation is fluid and open to reinterpretation; biologically I still retain the capacity to be bisexual or homosexual but I have refused both of those orientations.

[sbsquarepants]

Originally Posted by ViveLaVie

If you chose to be gay in a society where it is not as accepted as heterosexuality why not choose to remain *biologically true* to yourself and be bisexual? It doesn't really make sense as an argument. Likewise, I don't think I am straight only because it's the easier choice. IMO we are all born with our orientation. I was born straight as much as you were born gay. To me, each of our orientations is equally valid and biologically natural.

Couldn't agree more.
I've never given any real thought to what my sexuality is, i just followed what felt right to me. See a woman - get horny, see a man - not so much.
If it was a choice, bi is the obvious one, double the options and all that! But there's no choice, I just can't be attracted to men anymore than I could just stop being attracted to women. I am being biologicaly true to myself, I think it's impossible not to be!

[OldNotWIse]

Originally Posted by feckedformocks

I hope that my use of the quote button will satiate your angry appetite for quotes.

There seems to be a misinterpretation of what I wanted to convey, perhaps my message was not eloquently expressed with the clarity I was desirous to provide. I do not believe that sexual orientation is dictated solely on choosing the easier option. In my original quote I was talking in reference to why heterosexuality is so prevalent. If heterosexuals do not have strong feelings or inclinations for a same sex relationship then why would they actively choose it given that they face possible discrimination and they are able to procreate freely in a relationship with the opp sex.
My message was that we all biologically have the capacity for a same sex relationship. And as somebody else pointed out if it is a choice at all, it is not a conscious one.

If by "satiate your angry appetite for quotes" you mean "allow other posters to know when they are being addressed" then yes.

I remember your point about the "biological" capacity for a same sex relationship (by this, I assume you mean physical ability?) but did you not also mention something about a psychological choice? Correct me if I am wrong.

[OldNotWIse]

Originally Posted by ViveLaVie

Absolutely! I remember fancying Zach from Saved By The Bell when I was just four! Would've liked to ride off into the sunset with him (maybe when older than four though lol) As you say, why would you choose such a difficult adolescence? If you chose to be gay in a society where it is not as accepted as heterosexuality why not choose to remain *biologically true* to yourself and be bisexual? It doesn't really make sense as an argument. Likewise, I don't think I am straight only because it's the easier choice. IMO we are all born with our orientation. I was born straight as much as you were born gay. To me, each of our orientations is equally valid and biologically natural.

lol, to each their own Mine was Dr Quinn Medicine Woman when I was 11 (retreats shameful and red-faced from the discussion never to be seen again )

[feckedformocks]

Originally Posted by OldNotWIse

If by "satiate your angry appetite for quotes" you mean "allow other posters to know when they are being addressed" then yes.

I remember your point about the "biological" capacity for a same sex relationship (by this, I assume you mean physical ability?) but did you not also mention something about a psychological choice? Correct me if I am wrong.

Yes, which I referred to in my response, which mentioned something about conscious give it another read sure.