[Denerick]

Originally Posted by matthew8

We won't be unless he loses and we then pretend we knew he would lose all along. Last year I almost said he was sure to lose, I've completely changed my opinion, the ball's in his court now.

Is that because of Obama's strengths or Romney's weaknesses?

[matthew8]

Originally Posted by Denerick

Is that because of Obama's strengths or Romney's weaknesses?

The economy has been getting better. The tea party has calmed down. That's pretty much it. Romney was never a good candidate, but he has gotten worse.

[snow scorpion]

Originally Posted by matthew8

Last year I almost said he was sure to lose, I've completely changed my opinion, the ball's in his court now.

We seem to be opposites. Last year I was sure he was going to win. Now, the tea leaves are looking bad for Obama. The last week has been a brutal one for him:

• When the 8.1% unemployment rate was announced last week, even the mainstream media was quick to point out that the number is that low because so many people have given up looking for work. Put those people back into the calculation and the unemployment rate jumps to 11%
  
• He launched his re-election campaign at Ohio State University to thousands of empty seats.
  
• In West Virginia's Democrat primary Tuesday, Obama's opponent was a convict sitting in a prison cell and Obama could get only 59% of the vote.
  
• And now he appears to be trying to shore up the gay vote with yesterday's announcement.

The election is 6 months away and everyone know that's several eternities in the world of politics. But there's no denying Obama has had a very bad week.

[Carcharodon]

Originally Posted by Atlantis50

Which previous presidents had less experience than Obama when they took office?

Washington, Jackson, Harrison, Taylor, Grant, Eisenhower or Lincoln.

Don't know why you are so wrapped up in experience, its not like certain experienced presidents have covered themselves in glory once in office.

[Brian?]

Originally Posted by jank

Such a narrow view of the right in fairness. Romney is a step in the right direction for the GOP.

I don't have a narrow view of the right. There are plenty of honest, decent and well educated conservatives out there who I respect. I don't agree with them, but I respect them.

There is a growing extreme right to the Republican party, as clearly demonstrated by Santorums run. That is who I am referring to.

[jank]

Originally Posted by MrMister

Romney is a corporate robot who flounders when taken off script. He opposes everything except tax cuts for the rich. Romney and his party have time after time demonstrated that they are not capable of seeing a point of view other than their own. A Romney presidency would be disasterous for the US as he would only cater to the far right in hopes of having a second term.

And Sanatorum or Gingrich would be better? Romney has experience of running a business, a profitable one at that.
Sure I would love if Ron Paul was the candidate but the US is not ready for that yet. So out of the other big 4 Romney is a step in the right direction. Is he perfect? No, not at all.

[jank]

Originally Posted by briankeating

I don't have a narrow view of the right. There are plenty of honest, decent and well educated conservatives out there who I respect. I don't agree with them, but I respect them.

There is a growing extreme right to the Republican party, as clearly demonstrated by Santorums run. That is who I am referring to.

And the fact that he didnt win should also give an indication of the GOP finally getting it. Stop the social conservatism bollox and get on with running the country in a fiscally common sense way.

[Fr Tod Umptious]

Originally Posted by snow scorpion

We seem to be opposites. Last year I was sure he was going to win. Now, the tea leaves are looking bad for Obama. The last week has been a brutal one for him:

• When the 8.1% unemployment rate was announced last week, even the mainstream media was quick to point out that the number is that low because so many people have given up looking for work. Put those people back into the calculation and the unemployment rate jumps to 11%
• He launched his re-election campaign at Ohio State University to thousands of empty seats.
• In West Virginia's Democrat primary Tuesday, Obama's opponent was a convict sitting in a prison cell and Obama could get only 59% of the vote.
• And now he appears to be trying to shore up the gay vote with yesterday's announcement.

The election is 6 months away and everyone know that's several eternities in the world of politics. But there's no denying Obama has had a very bad week.

This probably belongs in the election super thread but here goes anyway.

Obama could have an apathy problem in this election, the empty seats at OSU were an example of it.
The sheen of the 'change we need is coming' etc has worn off,, not a whole lot has changed,
Those that went out an voted for him in 2008, the minorities, the young, will likely sit at home and not bother this time, like they did in most elections pre 2008.

The economy is 'sluggish', it is not powering ahead like it was for Regan in 1984 or Cliton in 1996, so the overused term ''it's the economy stupid" cannot be used in this case to argue why Obama will win.

His support for gay marriage is an attempt to find a new demographic to support him.

Originally Posted by jank

And the fact that he didnt win should also give an indication of the GOP finally getting it. Stop the social conservatism bollox and get on with running the country in a fiscally common sense way.

Totally agree.
The rejection of the right wing and the tea party indicate that the GOP are not the 'crazy' people most around here try to protray them as.

[MrMister]

Originally Posted by jank

Romney has experience of running a business, a profitable one at that.

Romney made his fortune buying up companies (not, by the way, using his own money, but using the companies' own assets as collateral for the loans to buy them with). Then Romney fired many of the workers, making the rest do the extra work. He cut wages and benefits for the rest and then pocketed that money for himself. This is the guy who says that good wages and benefits is what puts companies out of business. In other words, Romney is saying that the problem with the economy is that we have a middle class. Romney wants America to be more "business-friendly". Outsourcing jobs to places where people don't have a say so they can't demand good wages, firing people and making them reapply for their jobs but at half the pay, gutting people's benefits, stripping companies, closing factories, stealing pensions, borrowing and pocketing... Locust capitalism. Chop shops. That's Mitt Romney's view of how to make money. Not the kind of guy I'd want running the country where you have to care about ALL members of society not just your rich shareholder buddies.

[Brian?]

Originally Posted by jank

And the fact that he didnt win should also give an indication of the GOP finally getting it. Stop the social conservatism bollox and get on with running the country in a fiscally common sense way.

TBH I don't think the GOP establishment ever lost it.

Romney had to pander to the "social conservatives" to actually get the nomination. Reagan would never have been nominated if he was around right now as he would be seen as too liberal. George HW Bush either. 2 of the most fiscally conservative presidents ever.

Fingers crossed Romneys pandering to the far right will sink him .

[matthew8]

Originally Posted by MrMister

Romney made his fortune buying up companies (not, by the way, using his own money, but using the companies' own assets as collateral for the loans to buy them with). Then Romney fired many of the workers, making the rest do the extra work. He cut wages and benefits for the rest and then pocketed that money for himself. This is the guy who says that good wages and benefits is what puts companies out of business. In other words, Romney is saying that the problem with the economy is that we have a middle class. Romney wants America to be more "business-friendly". Outsourcing jobs to places where people don't have a say so they can't demand good wages, firing people and making them reapply for their jobs but at half the pay, gutting people's benefits, stripping companies, closing factories, stealing pensions, borrowing and pocketing... Locust capitalism. Chop shops. That's Mitt Romney's view of how to make money. Not the kind of guy I'd want running the country where you have to care about ALL members of society not just your rich shareholder buddies.

He did all this because it was neccessary to do this to keep the businesses alive. Bain Capital has many success stories like Domino's pizza, staples, Dunkin' Donuts and Burger King. If Bain didn't invest (and no other venture capitalists did either) many of the businesses would've gone bust.

[matthew8]

Originally Posted by briankeating

TBH I don't think the GOP establishment ever lost it.

Romney had to pander to the "social conservatives" to actually get the nomination. Reagan would never have been nominated if he was around right now as he would be seen as too liberal. George HW Bush either. 2 of the most fiscally conservative presidents ever.

Fingers crossed Romneys pandering to the far right will sink him .

You don't get the republican base at all. If you're a moderate it doesn't matter. You just have to act like a conservative, and that doesn't even mean saying conservative things. Chris Christie is immensely popular among republicans despite being a social moderate.

[Brian?]

Originally Posted by matthew8

You don't get the republican base at all. If you're a moderate it doesn't matter. You just have to act like a conservative, and that doesn't even mean saying conservative things. Chris Christie is immensely popular among republicans despite being a social moderate.

I do get the Republican base. Why is everyone determind to miss my point.

The far right is not the republican base, I know this. The problem Is that they have to be won over to win the nomination because they're such a large minority.

Chris Christie is not a social moderate. He's just slightly leas right wing, which I suppose in US terms does make him moderate. The base loves him because he's a hard line fiscal conservative, just like Reagan. I don't think Christie would have won the nomination anyway, without a large swing right on social issues.

[Amerika]

Hmmm... What really has President Obama done more than fool a select group of people into getting more donations to his relection campaign? According to him, the individual states can still do what they want, and he said he wouldn't use his power as president to stop others from banning gay marriage? So basically... nothing!

As Joe Scarbough (R) said on his MSNBC show… "Do these progressive cheerleaders of the president realize that their hero has now adopted a position on gay marriage that is horrifyingly close to the views of Ron Paul, Barry Goldwater, William F. Buckley, Ronald Reagan and yes, even me."

[Denerick]

Originally Posted by Amerika

As Joe Scarbough (R) said on his MSNBC show… "Do these progressive cheerleaders of the president realize that their hero has now adopted a position on gay marriage that is horrifyingly close to the views of Ron Paul, Barry Goldwater, William F. Buckley, Ronald Reagan and yes, even me."

All of those Republicans (bar, perhaps, Reagan) were sane. At least by comparison. Though as a social liberal I'm quite biased as they were all (bar Reagan) libertarians.

Can't say that for the modern party. Reminds me of Rwanda before the genocide.