[raymon]

We hear a lot about the FF renewal and grassroots.

I would like to know what FF grassroots stands for .

If a recent Mayo cumann meeting is any indication grassroots stand behind Pee Flynn.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/05/01/...ile-in-mayo-7/

We saw the grassroots fall over themselves applauding Brian Cowen at the recent ard fheis.

O Cuiv claims he is the voice of grassroots. He says that FFs natural ally is SF . Also he is definitely anti Yes on the forthcoming treaty.

In the absence of any other message , FF grassroots looks like an organisation without clear direction.

Does anyone know what FF stands for , or Grassroots FF stands for?

Maybe I am wrong , maybe there is a set of core values that are clearly defined.

[thecommietommy]

Well, so much for FF's apology recently and mutterings of a " new beginning " and so on. But I suppose the leopard could never change his spots.

" At a recent meeting of Castlebar Fianna Fail Cumann, it was unanimously agreed that a vote of thanks and appreciation be extended to former EU commissioner Padraig Flynn for his work on behalf of Castlebar and County Mayo during his years of public service. "

http://www.advertiser.ie/mayo/articl...ervice-to-mayo

Isn't this the kind of servile gombeenism and cute hoorism that has destroyed this country and appears to be still alive and well in some parts of the country ??

[thecommietommy]

“The Flynn record speaks for itself,” he said . “This county benefited from a whole range of major projects for which he was responsible. All of the infrastuctural advantages we enjoy in Mayo today were a direct result of him representing his county with such drive and determination over his years in government.”

It should be pointed out, that Padraig gave Mammy Flynn the €50,000 Fianna Fail ' donation ' and Mammy went and bought some land to plant trees on it with a grant of €200,000 from Coillte. When FF became aware of this, they amazingly never looked for the €50,00 back - nor has ' new honest FF man ' Martin either !!!!!

According to a legal expert on RTE the night of the Mahon report, he said he couldn't be specific but that certain " political household names " would face criminal charges (he specifically mentioned Ahern wouldn't it should be pointed out). I suppose Castlebar FF will have a few church gate collections for poor Padraig and the Flynn family no dounbt

[K-9]

Opening post moved from Irish Economy and existing thread merged.

[Chazz Michael Michaels]

There is no renewal of that party, they are comprised from top to bottom, voter to leader. A history of corruption and willingly voting for the corrupt and inept. FF represent everything that is wrong with Irish society, because, they were at the core of everything that happened in our history. I never voted for them and never will, and I will never take seriously a person who supports them.

And, before the inevitably moronic question of 'well, who do you support' chimes in, I don't support any parties. I find blindly supporting a party to be a cretinous activity.

[raymon]

Originally Posted by Chazz Michael Michaels

There is no renewal of that party,

I think you are correct here , no renewal , no real core values, no point

[Sierra Oscar]

Go to a meeting and see for yourself.

The Clar for the last Ard Fheis can be found here which contains many motions submitted by grass root members throughout the nation.

FF Ard Fheis Clar 2012

A list of motions that were passed is also knocking about the place.

Originally Posted by raymon

If a recent Mayo cumann meeting is any indication grassroots stand behind Pee Flynn.

What do you expect from the cumann that the Flynn family has a huge amount of influence over? The wider movement despise Flynn - however you rarely heard about the motions which were passed by cumann up and down the country calling for the expulsion of the likes of Flynn and recently Ahern.

[Wider Road]

Originally Posted by raymon

I think you are correct here , no renewal , no real core values, no point

What party are close to your heart at this present time, Raymon?
We know what party's you dislike, any chance of your opinion on the rest for a change?

[ted1]

Is O Cuiv, going to challenge Martin for leadership?

[kbannon]

Originally Posted by Sierra Oscar

The wider movement despise Flynn - however you rarely heard about the motions which were passed by cumann up and down the country calling for the expulsion of the likes of Flynn and recently Ahern.

why only recently ahern? There has been ample opportunity over the last number of years to get rid of him. You didn't need to wait on the tribunal to report first!

[Sierra Oscar]

Originally Posted by kbannon

why only recently ahern? There has been ample opportunity over the last number of years to get rid of him. You didn't need to wait on the tribunal to report first!

There are legal implications in discussing Mahon and making judgements on an individuals character before the tribunal has issued its report.

Sounds pathetic, I know - but its true nonetheless.

In saying that, it is not as if there werent people who wanted Ahern gone before the Tribunal reported - but such people pretty much had to hold fire until there was reliable ammunition to base their opinions upon! To be fair, I think that is only right too.

Originally Posted by ted1

Is O Cuiv, going to challenge Martin for leadership?

I cannot really see that happening as you need support to launch a leadership bid, which O'Cuiv has little to none of - especially within the parliamentary party.

[[Jackass]]

O'Cuiv is tasting the air and smells the anti-Europe agenda, he's looking at the success of SF, and he is currently making a juxtaposition to align himself with this.

FF stands for nothing. The failure of the party at Government level, and the oppertunity to become a martyr is the sole motivation behind the desperately power hungry O'Cuiv, and he knows he's on a sinking ship and wont get it there.

He has that ruthless, conniving De Valera blood in him, and just like his grandfather, he'll do whatever it takes to get into power, take whatever stance will get him there, and seize on the separation of the populous to propel himself to glory.

Watch out for O Cuiv, he's from the deepest belly of the corrupt and conniving slime ball school of FF.

[Shea O'Meara]

I can honestly only see people keeping a flame burning for this party due to pure tradition. This does not make any sense to me. Why try fix such a broken corrupt party? FFail stands for generational corruption and was founded by a thief who screwed the very people he claimed to represent. That's become the main trait of the party. Yes, potholes got filled and so on, but why do people feel the need to keep plugging away with this shady organisation?
I cannot help but be negative about FFail. It's not disliking for the hell of it, facts are facts.
The whole grass roots members, salt of the earth, the real FFail thing simply doesn't wash. There's two ways to view it:
1) the grass roots people are genuine and love the country...but have had successive corrupt leaders and guiding lights since day one so what good is it to have such upstanding grass roots, does it even matter?
2) if everybody on the ground are great and trying to change from within, why not either expell your whole leadership and start from scratch or even leave and form a new party?

I believe the grass roots of FFail are the problem. They enable the shysters to rule, they support the likes of Flynn, O'Dea, Ahern on a local level.
It's all civil war/partition ****e in my view. We don't need it and will never progress with the hardcore FFail or nothing grass roots folk on the scene. Same goes for FG.

[transylman]

Originally Posted by Sierra Oscar

There are legal implications in discussing Mahon and making judgements on an individuals character before the tribunal has issued its report.

Sounds pathetic, I know - but its true nonetheless.

It does sound pathetic, but it isn't true. There was plenty of evidence before the 2007 election that Ahern had been engaging in all kinds of financial irregularities. If they had wanted to, the parliamentary party had a wide variety of ways that they could have got rid of him without affecting the Mahon tribunal. They either didn't care or chose to ignore all this and stand by him.

If what you are saying was true they wouldn't have been able to pressure him to leave in 2008.

[Mr.Micro]

Originally Posted by [Jackass]

O'Cuiv is tasting the air and smells the anti-Europe agenda, he's looking at the success of SF, and he is currently making a juxtaposition to align himself with this.

Watch out for O Cuiv, he's from the deepest belly of the corrupt and conniving slime ball school of FF.

I think O'Cuiv is aligning himself for leadership. Just like his his grandad De Valera, talk talk talk, and no substance. He has no charisma and would get little support, other than the gombeen vote. O'Cuiv is outdated and out of touch IMO. He should have shown his rebellious streak when FF were driving the country into bankruptcy, not now when it suits his own agenda.