[extremetaz]

Originally Posted by Zubeneschamali

That's why we see all those cars with 1 gallon tanks, right? Because 40 miles is plenty!

oh come off it - I said it was sufficient.

Nobody is arguing that more wouldn't be better, but we're not there yet.

What I'm saying is that what is there IS sufficient for at least a decent proportion of the commuting populous.

Really! You're just being a cynic for the sake of argument at this point.

...and what I don't get is why?

You aren't convinced by EV's, we get that.
They won't work for someone in your position, that's fine, perfectly acceptable (too bad for you mind)

but bottom line - you haven't bought one yet, so you're in a perfect position to be entirely indifferent to them... so why then are you so obsessed with demonising them?

They work!

It really is that simple.

and that cannot be argued with - it's a real world fact - and there are a growing number of people on here to prove it.

[Sesshoumaru]

I almost forgot Boards.ie tradition - Congrats on the new purchase OP, it's a lovely car and I hope you have many happy miles in her! What colour did you order?

[extremetaz]

lol - I knew we'd get there eventually.

I took the floor model so it's the light blue one.

[Joe 90]

Originally Posted by extremetaz

Fortunately I benefit from the privilage of being an Electronic Engineer with a specialisation in energy systems so I'm a little more familiar with, and confident in, Lithium battery chemistries than most.

I'd actually hold entirely the opposite view to what you've outlined above. No battery likes to sit fully charged for extended periods of time, but farthermore, there is absolutely no cost benefit to these vehicles over those distances.

What you're outlining places them in the bracket of exclusive toy rather than cost effective tranport.

Having said that, the likes of the Reva did serve to enforce that opinion I suppose - my father has one of them as it happens. Now *that* is a purely urban vehicle, not even remotely suited to extra-urban travel. However, it's also classed as a quadricycle, not a car, and has a 13kW motor fed from a 12kWh pack. It has no brake servo, no steering or traction aids, no airbags...

It's not even remotely representative of a proper electric car.

The Leaf has a 24kWh pack driving an 80kW motor. That's 107BHP, and it's available from stopped! It has traction control, cruise control, ABS, power steering, climate control, airbags, electric windows, etc, etc, etc....

In short - this IS a proper car.

Again - I'm not trying to convert anyone here, but if you happen to shed some of your prejudices whilst you're here then great.

The only difference with them is the range restriction - and that is why, as I said, they'll suit some more than others.

I would consider 'It has no brake servo, no steering or traction aids, no airbags... ' to be an indication of a proper car as opposed to roadgoing white goods.

[Sesshoumaru]

Originally Posted by Joe 90

I would consider 'It has no brake servo, no steering or traction aids, no airbags... ' to be an indication of a proper car as opposed to roadgoing white goods.

You'd love the Twizy so!

[Joe 90]

Originally Posted by unkel
Oh no, it's a lot worse than that. At 120km/h I would say the car uses roughly (for simplicity reasons) about half of its power (same would apply to an average ICE vehicle). The engine power is 80kW and the battery capacity is 24kWh

This means a fully charged Leaf will only lasts a bit over 30mins at 120km/h. Not 90mins

A 50MPG diesel with the same power and a 65l tank would last 10 hours at 120km/h

An EV as is, is only suitable as a city car in reality..

Originally Posted by subway

Is this not a worry op?

I suspect your assumptions are a bit dodgy. I would expect a car to use may be 20 bhp to cruise at 70 mph or so. I say a car not a dirty great SUV or people carrier. No 20 bhp is about 15kW. I would expect the electric motor to be pretty efficient, say 90% so his 90 minutes might not be that far off the mark. Of course chuck in a 30 mph headwind and he is screwed. Or a wet cold night that needs heater, demister, wipers, lights etc

[extremetaz]

Originally Posted by Joe 90

I would consider 'It has no brake servo, no steering or traction aids, no airbags... ' to be an indication of a proper car as opposed to roadgoing white goods.

hahaha - assuming you're not referring to some puritan harmony between man and machine mentality, can you name a single, current, production ROAD car that goes without those features (excluding the aformentioed Twizzy)?

[Sesshoumaru]

Originally Posted by extremetaz

hahaha - assuming you're not referring to some puritan harmony between man and machine mentality, can you name a single, current, production ROAD car that goes without those features (excluding the aformentioed Twizzy)?

Well I have to admit the Twizy does have an airbag!

[extremetaz]

Originally Posted by Joe 90

I suspect your assumptions are a bit dodgy. I would expect a car to use may be 20 bhp to cruise at 70 mph or so. I say a car not a dirty great SUV or people carrier. No 20 bhp is about 15kW. I would expect the electric motor to be pretty efficient, say 90% so his 90 minutes might not be that far off the mark. Of course chuck in a 30 mph headwind and he is screwed. Or a wet cold night that needs heater, demister, wipers, lights etc

I think 90mins is a little optimistic, but I agree with your logic. To get an accurate appraisal we'd really need to know what the power requirement for something like the Auris is whilst maintaining steady motorway speeds.

It all comes down to whatever is required to overcome the aerodrag and the rolling resistance - but I agree that the 30min figure is somewhat laughable, hence why I stated the assumption of plausibility rather than agreeing with the figure.

I'd expect something in the region of 50 mins at the steady 120.

[extremetaz]

Originally Posted by Sesshoumaru

Well I have to admit the Twizy does have an airbag!

haven't even looked at its spec, but the thought of any extra-urban vehicle of small car mass or greater, capable of travelling at the national speed limit, and NOT sporting a brake servo is entirely nonesensical.

[LIGHTNING]

Originally Posted by extremetaz

haven't even looked at its spec, but the thought of any extra-urban vehicle of small car mass or greater, capable of travelling at the national speed limit, and NOT sporting a brake servo is entirely nonesensical.

How so? You don't need a brake assist on such a small car/bike. I would agree if it was a two tonne German luxo barge but not on something as small as the Twizy.

[extremetaz]

Originally Posted by LIGHTNING

How so? You don't need a brake assist on such a small car/bike. I would agree if it was a two tonne German luxo barge but not on something as small as the Twizy.

lol - the Twizzy is NOT an extra-urban vehicle of small car mass or greater, capable of travelling at the national speed limit.


..to the best of my knowledge.


(and neither is the Reva... it's an amped up golf cart with doors)

try drive a yaris without a brake servo and see where that gets ya.

[Zubeneschamali]

Originally Posted by extremetaz

so why then are you so obsessed with demonising them?

So pointing out a few facts is "demonising" now? Have a few more!

From CAR's long term test:

Work, to home, to my gym, home again, and work the next morning. Total distance: 45 miles. Remaining range as I arrived at work, having left there the night before fully charged? Five miles. The supposed range is 109 miles...

[Zubeneschamali]

Originally Posted by Joe 90

I would expect a car to use may be 20 bhp to cruise at 70 mph or so.

Why would you expect that?

[Joe 90]

Originally Posted by RoverZT

If you take a wrong turn like I have a few times on the M50, you will be calling the AA to pick you up

Of course the really horrifying thought is of all those EVs piddling along a motorway at 50kph to try to get to a charge point before they stop.