[nuac]

Originally Posted by Lars1916

Yawn...Sinn Fein can do what they want, and there will always be some bashing. What's next? A Sinn Fein TD, buying a pack of Barry's Tea, instead of Lyon's Tea?

Seriously, other parties are wasting tax payer's money as well.

Yes, but other parties do not make much of claims to be on the average industrial wage etc etc.

SF swiping of Leinster House ink shows them to be as venal as others and perhaps more so

[Sand]

I'm no fan of Sinn Fein but lets clarify that Karl Whelan, qualified economist, believes that the treaty makes no economic sense. But Karl Whelan, unqualified political analyst and otherwise unknown fortune teller believes the treaty makes political sense. So, in the area Karl Whelan is qualified to comment he cant find any reason to endorse the treaty. But he endorses it anyway, on the basis of sheer hope.

Thats fine, and Id agree its ignorant of SF to misrepresent Karl Whelan as an opponent of the treaty when hes at best a reluctant non-protester (interesting that a treaty of such universal benefit to Ireland can find no enthusiastic Irish supporters...) but its worth noting that the entire Irish policy since 2008 has been:

1 - Agree to some crappy deal against the interests of Ireland
2 - Presume the EU will reciprocate by bailing us out later by some gas wheeze or trick

Irish policy to date has simply been hope, sheer blind hope that something, anything will "come up" and rescue us from the jaws of reality.

Id seriously, seriously hope that no one presumes that the ECB, the EU and the Germans in particular are anything other than *deadly* serious about the Irish people paying back every single cent of every single euro borrowed, plus interest. The inflexiability of the EU over the entirely piffling matter of the promissory notes ought to signal very clearly that the EU and the ECB say what they mean, and they mean what they say.

If we sign up to the fiscal compact, there wont be any mercy or leniency for Ireland so the "Makes no economic sense but vote for it anyway" argument is pretty much dead wrong. If we sign up to a deal that Karl Whelan believes makes no economic sense, then thats exactly what we are doing - we are subordinating Irish economic policy to terms that make no economic sense. Do not sleepwalk into that sort of bad economic planning in the same way that we sleepwalked into the Euro without realizing the consequences.

[later12]

Originally Posted by meglome

Am I missing something, doesn't sound like he's okay with Sinn Fein selectively quoting him at all.

I was speaking about his contribution to The Late Debate on the night of my post; in that debate, Whelan basically clarified that the treaty is economically unsound from his perspective, but that its ratificatiion is (in his opinion) a political necessity.

This programme is available via the RTE website, I am quite sure.

[Good loser]

Originally Posted by Sand

I'm no fan of Sinn Fein but lets clarify that Karl Whelan, qualified economist, believes that the treaty makes no economic sense. But Karl Whelan, unqualified political analyst and otherwise unknown fortune teller believes the treaty makes political sense. So, in the area Karl Whelan is qualified to comment he cant find any reason to endorse the treaty. But he endorses it anyway, on the basis of sheer hope.

Thats fine, and Id agree its ignorant of SF to misrepresent Karl Whelan as an opponent of the treaty when hes at best a reluctant non-protester (interesting that a treaty of such universal benefit to Ireland can find no enthusiastic Irish supporters...) but its worth noting that the entire Irish policy since 2008 has been:

1 - Agree to some crappy deal against the interests of Ireland
2 - Presume the EU will reciprocate by bailing us out later by some gas wheeze or trick

Irish policy to date has simply been hope, sheer blind hope that something, anything will "come up" and rescue us from the jaws of reality.

Id seriously, seriously hope that no one presumes that the ECB, the EU and the Germans in particular are anything other than *deadly* serious about the Irish people paying back every single cent of every single euro borrowed, plus interest. The inflexiability of the EU over the entirely piffling matter of the promissory notes ought to signal very clearly that the EU and the ECB say what they mean, and they mean what they say.

If we sign up to the fiscal compact, there wont be any mercy or leniency for Ireland so the "Makes no economic sense but vote for it anyway" argument is pretty much dead wrong. If we sign up to a deal that Karl Whelan believes makes no economic sense, then thats exactly what we are doing - we are subordinating Irish economic policy to terms that make no economic sense. Do not sleepwalk into that sort of bad economic planning in the same way that we sleepwalked into the Euro without realizing the consequences.

How does one become a 'qualified political analyst'?

Should voting or vote advocating be confined to qpa's?

Perhaps in this instance the qualified economist is wrong in his economic opinions and correct in his political advice.

IMO this referendum is a total waste of money induced by flawed court decisions and timid advice from the AG.

We are where we are now and should definitely vote yes and get the damn thing out of the way as quickly as possible. I cannot see a yes vote having the slightest negative impact on the country. To my mind it's an exercise in optics. The EURO is facing huge turbulance in the months and years ahead; lets not add to the burdens weighing it down.