[Markdub2000]

Originally Posted by Veloce

As judge judy would say - " get unschocked" lol

I wouldn't like to be the judge in this case!

The man that died paid the ultimate price for his behaviour - a bully met a bully there is no doubt about that!

I sympathise more with the lad with the hurly - i believe his aggressive and animalistic behaviour is basic animal instinct - flight or fight.

He was penned in so he fought, the instigator lost

[Chriscl1]

There is no case for fight or flight when you are the one that got out of your car, went to the boot, retrieve hurley then hit a vehicle with it then as soon as the driver steps out smack him around the head.

[Markdub2000]

Originally Posted by Chriscl1

There is no case for fight or flight when you are the one that got out of your car, went to the boot, retrieve hurley then hit a vehicle with it then as soon as the driver steps out smack him around the head.

I would disagree - it appears to me that the other driver had already "thrown the first punch" by using his car as a weapon to block someone's path without the authority to do so.

One could argue that the intention of the driver was to kill the occupants of the car by swerving infront of them, but due to intoxication - missed!! The other fella grabbed his hurly and smacked ur man to stop him going for another try with his car....

There's always a grey area

[Anan1]

Originally Posted by Markdub2000

One could argue that the intention of the driver was to kill the occupants of the car by swerving infront of them, but due to intoxication - missed!! The other fella grabbed his hurly and smacked ur man to stop him going for another try with his car....

That's really clutching at straws.

[unkel]

Donohoe didn't care about his child in the car, in fact quite the opposite. He set up a nice little show that his little girl will remember for the rest of her life

The only reason the child is mentioned is to get some sympathy (it worked here ^^^) and thus leniency

What people are missing here too is that during the final confrontation, Donohoe starting beating Bates' car with his hurley. Bates didn't want to get out of his car and when he eventually did, he was non-confrontational and held his hands up in air. Donohoe then proceeded to repeatedly kick him in the head with his hurley

From a natural justice point of view, this was clearly murder. Obviously too hard to prove and Donohoe was keen enough to admit manslaughter

I feel sorry for the little girl. Chances are she'll grow up to be a piece of scum just like daddy-o

[Veloce]

Originally Posted by Anan1

That's really clutching at straws.

+1

[Guy:Incognito]

Originally Posted by JerCotter7

"Witness Emma O'Gorman, who was in a car behind the two men, said she saw Donohoe hitting the front passenger door of Mr Bates's car for two or three minutes before Mr Bates got out with his hands in the air in a non-confrontational manner. She said Donohoe "looked possessed" and immediately hit the victim with the hurley stick."

2 or 3 minutes? Has that been verified? Thats a huge amount of time to sit there patiently while someone is hitting your car.

Originally Posted by unkel

What people are missing here too is that during the final confrontation, Donohoe starting beating Bates' car with his hurley. Bates didn't want to get out of his car and when

I cant understand why he didnt just drive off at that stage

Originally Posted by unkel

From a natural justice point of view, this was clearly murder. Obviously too hard to prove and Donohoe was keen enough to admit manslaughter

Is it though? He didnt go home to get the hurley then go back out with the intention to kill him. It's part of the same sequence. The hurely was on his person to some extent (ie in the car).

[Grolschevik]

Originally Posted by Guy:Incognito

2 or 3 minutes? Has that been verified? Thats a huge amount of time to sit there patiently while someone is hitting your car.

I cant understand why he didnt just drive off at that stage

An eyewitness verified it.

Originally Posted by JerCotter7

"Witness Emma O'Gorman, who was in a car behind the two men, said she saw Donohoe hitting the front passenger door of Mr Bates's car for two or three minutes before Mr Bates got out with his hands in the air in a non-confrontational manner. She said Donohoe "looked possessed" and immediately hit the victim with the hurley stick."

[Guy:Incognito]

Originally Posted by Grolschevik

An eyewitness verified it.

It was her account I was questioning and asking if it was verified I even quoted it.

[Markdub2000]

His kid is 10 months old - she probably won't even remember a four year stretch if he goes down for that long....

Is their evidence to support that - I find it hard to believe he cornered him in and then stayed in his car to avoid confrontation - it doesn't add up?

I also find it difficult to believe he got out rterieved hurly from the boot and then went for him - in the 60 seconds that action would have taken u would have expected the other driver to exit the car....

Far more likely that hurly was in the passenger seat at the time and he got out mr bates saw hurly and backed down - why he got out is a mystery...

Or more likely the pair got out to square up and ur man had hurly in tow

[unkel]

Originally Posted by Guy:Incognito

I cant understand why he didnt just drive off at that stage

Yeah I can't understand that either. Maybe he wanted to wait until the other man calmed down?

Originally Posted by Guy:Incognito

Is it though? He didnt go home to get the hurley then go back out with the intention to kill him. It's part of the same sequence. The hurely was on his person to some extent (ie in the car).

Having the hurley in the car is like having a knife or a gun. The only reason to have any of these in the car with you is to deliberately cause harm. To repeatedly attack someone, who is not defending himself, in the head with a deadly weapon is murder. Donohue said and kept saying afterwards that he wished Bates would die.

But I've no doubt the DPP was keen to avoid another Nally type case (that was also clearly murder)

[Grolschevik]

Originally Posted by Guy:Incognito

It was her account I was questioning and asking if it was verified I even quoted it.

Oh, fair enough! I presume she was testifying under oath, but I doubt that she timed it. In a situation like that, it probably seemed longer than it was. However, the literalness of the "two or three" didn't seem to be relevant in the court.

[Guy:Incognito]

Originally Posted by unkel

Having the hurley in the car is like having a knife or a gun. The only reason to have any of these in the car with you is to deliberately cause harm.

In fairness now, it's nothing like going aroung with a gun or knife in the car. I drive around with my rugby boots in the boot. If I was a hurler I'd probably have a couple of hurls in there.

[Grolschevik]

Originally Posted by Guy:Incognito

In fairness now, it's nothing like going aroung with a gun or knife in the car. I drive around with my rugby boots in the boot. If I was a hurler I'd probably have a couple of hurls in there.

I think he meant, if he had it in the front seat with him.

[Bam Bam Mickey]

Knives, Hurleys, braces.......the only thing you won't find in an irish car is a valid tax disc.