[Solair]

Originally Posted by Sarky

So... They're functionally Protestant? Hilarious.

Shhhh! Don't tell them that, they'll get freaked out.

[mikhail]

There are a number of letters in today's Indo pointing out that these folks are protestants in all but name, even one calling on them to join the CoI. Naturally, they also found a letter for 'balance' where some one praised the church for not falling into "mob rule".

[Solair]

"Mob rule": isn't that what aristocrats, oligarchs and dictators usually call democracy?

[Galvasean]

No no no, Protestants are those guys who oppressed your grandfather. Catholics support Celtic and drink beer.

[mikhail]

Originally Posted by Solair

"Mob rule": isn't that what aristocrats, oligarchs and dictators usually call democracy?

And what black folks called lynchings. People are free to believe in that stuff or not. It just staggers me that anyone with real faith could look at the Vatican's recent record and still think that this is the divinely inspired rule of a god's representiative on Earth. Unless they're whittling the faithful down to that 144,000 number in Revelations.

[Newaglish]

I was curious as to the 35% figure for Mass attendance - it seems higher than what I predict a national average to be for the infamous "84%". I then noticed that the sample was of 1,000 "catholics". How is this determined? What definition of catholic did they use? I presume for them to have a list of catholic people to distribute the survey to, it was either done via mail shot to members of a particular catholic organisation, or handed out to individuals at a particular catholic event. I'm not really sure that this would give you a representative sample?

[Penn]

Originally Posted by Newaglish

I was curious as to the 35% figure for Mass attendance - it seems higher than what I predict a national average to be for the infamous "84%". I then noticed that the sample was of 1,000 "catholics". How is this determined? What definition of catholic did they use? I presume for them to have a list of catholic people to distribute the survey to, it was either done via mail shot to members of a particular catholic organisation, or handed out to individuals at a particular catholic event. I'm not really sure that this would give you a representative sample?

Commissioned by the Association of Catholic Priests (ACP), the Contemporary Catholic Perspectives survey was carried out among 1,000 Catholics throughout the island of Ireland over a two-week period in February.

So I'm assuming they may have interviewed people on the street with the first question being "Are you Catholic?".

If the 84% from the Census is based on whether people consider themselves to be Catholic, then so would this survey.

[Skrynesaver]

Originally Posted by Galvasean

No no no, Protestants are those guys who oppressed your grandfather. Catholics support Celtic and drink beer.

Nail on the head there, Catholicism is a sectarian tribal badge for, probably the majority of, self identified Catholics in Ireland having nothing to do with belief or custom.

If they move towards a smaller purer church, as promised, I for one will be delighted.

[Galvasean]

Originally Posted by Skrynesaver

If they move towards a smaller purer church, as promised, I for one will be delighted.

They won't though, because 'Protestant' is still seen as a bad word / boogeyman for many Irish.
More chance of them forming their own 'Irish Catholic' as opposed to 'Roman catholic' church. Now that would be most interesting...

[redfacedbear]

Nothing surprising here I think. Would have been interesting had they gone into some of the more fundamental RC theology - resurrection, transubstanstiation, papal infallibility etc. I can get my head around somebody still considering themselves a catholic while disregarding teaching on sexuality. But somebody who does so while being iffy on the resurrection (and I've met some) that just bamboozles me!

[Galvasean]

Originally Posted by redfacedbear

. But somebody who does so while being iffy on the resurrection (and I've met some) that just bamboozles me!

Since 10% of Catholics apparently don't believe in God that is surely the greatest indicator that it is seen as more of a cultural identification sort of thing than an actual set of religious beliefs.

[ISAW]

Originally Posted by Penn

So I'm assuming they may have interviewed people on the street with the first question being "Are you Catholic?".

If the 84% from the Census is based on whether people consider themselves to be Catholic, then so would this survey.

Im arguing from ignorance here but the ACP survey was on opinions of mostly non practicing catholics. It isn not therefore surprising since most of them dont practice one rule most of the sample would also not practice another rule.

In addition say "most Texans favour the death penalty" or even most Catholic Texans do. If the Vatican oppose the death penalty are most Texans therefore right and the Vatican wrong?

[smokingman]

Originally Posted by ISAW

If the Vatican oppose the death penalty are most Texans therefore right and the Vatican wrong?

There's a world of difference in being right about not killing and believing in magic.

[ISAW]

Originally Posted by smokingman

There's a world of difference in being right about not killing and believing in magic.

Not from the logic of the argument made there isnt.

If "most people" say something is true that does not make it true if it isn't true.

[Galvasean]

Originally Posted by ISAW

If "most people" say something is true that does not make it true if it isn't true.

So most people in Ireland aren't Catholic? gotcha.