[liammur]

Originally Posted by irishbucsfan

Sorry I shoukdnt have said can't, I should have said haven't. I have every faith that Munster will pay off that debt. Not through their own means though. Last season Munster didn't make repayments.

Munster have now made a loss this season. That means nothing to them. It's a lot more serious for an independent club like Wasps who have to be self sufficient, something the Irish provinces have never been.

That means clubs like wasps have to be far more prudent.
If someone like JP McManus gives Munster more cash, to pay off debt, who really cares? If wasps find a backer, who really cares where they got the cash?

[its_phil]

Originally Posted by irishbucsfan

Munster can't pay their debt on Thomond Park though. Should they be banned from making signings or playing in Europe until they can? Of course not. I think its unfair for Irish people to cast opinions on English clubs while our provinces operate outside their means in exactly the same way, propped up by the IRFU.

Wasps problem is their owner can't afford to keep them on any more and they're not going to get support for the new stadium they want now.

They've signed two journeymen, neither of whom were starting at their previous clubs.

What are they supposed to do? Stop spending money and just slink away into the national league? That is exactly what would put them under.

There is nothing wrong with having debt as long as you can pay it like clearly Munster can. Every club makes losses at sometime but its whether you can operate at those losses. Wasps have taken on debt that they cant afford to repay as opposed to Munster who can afford to pay off their debt to creditors. Wasps used money they don't have to boost their hopes of staying in the league (which is only barely working) and are gaining an unfair advantage over their competitors who are living within their own means.

And yes they are supposed to stop spending money they don't have. It's the accumulation of debt over years I'd guess which means they didn't have it a few years back when Dallalgio and co were there. That is a guess but £2m debt with no stadium repayments (they rent training facilities and Adams Park) probably means they spent too much on salaries. I can't imagine Adams Park costs much in rent considering it isn't the most up to date ground either.

Wasps don't even have any assets to put up as security against loans they may have taken out. Their only assets are players and any worthwhile have all long gone. They may have to ask the returning Haskell to look elsewhere. They basically have nothing to liquidate if they go under.

I'm sorry to see them in their sorry state but if they don't get a new buyer who can negotiate their debts, relegation is a fair punishment. They have taken an unfair financial advatage over their competitiors and need a punishment that is fitting of the crime. It may set the club back a couple of years but they'll come back like Quins and Northampton have before them. But their greatest disadvantage is having no stadium of their own. They were terribly unlucky not to get permission for their stadium. Promoted clubs like Quins, Northampton and Exeter were able to build their now very stable clubs on ground they called their own.

Honestly best of luck to Wasps with finding a new owner. They are a great club and the people of High Wycome are lovely people as I found out last year when I was there for two weeks. I'm sure they'll find one, Wasps is still a very marketable brand but I'd still be worried.

[thomond2006]

Wasps lost today and Newcastle won, meaning Wasps are 4 points ahead of Newcastle with 2 games to go in the league. Looks like their meeting on the last weekend will be a relegation decider. Bonus points are huge now.

Round 21:
Newcastle vs Saracens
Bath vs Wasps

Round 22:
Wasps vs Newcastle

http://www.premiershiprugby.com/prem...ugby/index.php

[padser]

Originally Posted by irishbucsfan

They've signed two journeymen, neither of whom were starting at their previous clubs.

.

Thomand described Jones as "past it" which is probably fair enough given he is 34.

To describe him as a journeyman given that he had 6 Lions caps, over 100 welch caps, over 1000 international points and a few grand slams and has played most of his career at one club is way off the mark.

In no sense of the of the word is he a journeyman.

[liammur]

Originally Posted by padser

Thomand described Jones as "past it" which is probably fair enough given he is 34.

To describe him as a journeyman given that he had 6 Lions caps, over 100 welch caps, over 1000 international points and a few grand slams and has played most of his career at one club is way off the mark.

In no sense of the of the word is he a journeyman.

Absolutely ridiculous to call him a journeyman, we can only assume the poster doesn't understand the meaning of the word.

[irishbucsfan]

Journeyman was the completely wrong thing to call him. I wasn't thinking straight. He's been a one club man up to this point so couldnt be any more wrong!

I should have said average.

[durkadurka]

Originally Posted by irishbucsfan

Journeyman was the completely wrong thing to call him. I wasn't thinking straight. He's been a one club man up to this point so couldnt be any more wrong!

I should have said average.

He's played in France for a bit and maybe England hasn't he? Still not a journeyman though.

Edit : yes clermont for 2 years

[irishbucsfan]

Originally Posted by durkadurka

He's played in France for a bit and maybe England hasn't he? Still not a journeyman though.

Edit : yes clermont for 2 years

Yeah he was quite good for Clermont I thought.

[liammur]

Originally Posted by irishbucsfan

Journeyman was the completely wrong thing to call him. I wasn't thinking straight. He's been a one club man up to this point so couldnt be any more wrong!

I should have said average.

I think he was quite a good player in his day, but now, I think he's even below average.

[theKramer]

Originally Posted by liammur

I think he was quite a good player in his day, but now, I think he's even below average.

And doesnt have the b@lls to go for a drop goal...

[RadioClash]

I was under the understanding that Munster were in fact ahead of schedule in their repayments for Thomond. Not sure where I got that from but I thought I heard it somewhere in the media.

[CIARAN_BOYLE]

Originally Posted by RadioClash

I was under the understanding that Munster were in fact ahead of schedule in their repayments for Thomond. Not sure where I got that from but I thought I heard it somewhere in the media.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/downloads/I...ort_201011.pdf

If you look at page 46 you will notice that the loan to the IRFU as at 30/4/11 stood at €10,661,778. Also on page 46 you will notice that the terms of the loan state that the amount outstanding on that date is not to exceed €7,753,000. So almost 3 million behind schedule.

[[Jackass]]

Originally Posted by liammur

Provide evidence of this.

Well he's not too wide of the mark. Munster are operating at a loss in the region of a six figure sum for the year just gone.

"Unexpectedly lowattendances at RaboDirect games during the World Cup last autumn, increased bank interest rates on the loan on Thomond Park and the absence of any revenue-generating concert at the stadium this year hit the province, said Fitzgerald."

http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/?c=...p=kfsnaukfgbgb

[thomond2006]

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,2...688547,00.html

Newcastle 3-9 Saracens, it means Newcastle are 3 points behind Wasps, who still have to travel to Bath this weekend. A win for Wasps relegates Newcastle.

[ongarite]

Wasps lose 17-12 to Bath but get a crucial losing BP.