[vintary]

Since this is the anniversary of the easter rebellion of 1916, thought I mite plug my blog page on the armoured vehicles used to crush the rebellion.

http://improvisedmilitaryvehicles.bl...ed-lorrys.html

[corktina]

thast very interesting. Thanks.

In view of the Railway connection, I have put a link on the rail and train systems forum, hope thats ok

[olly_mac]

Very interesting!! Thank you for sharing this.

[vintary]

Originally Posted by corktina

thast very interesting. Thanks.

In view of the Railway connection, I have put a link on the rail and train systems forum, hope thats ok

That's no bother fire away.............

I also have a blog on the Irish civil war "railway corps R.P.R.&.M.C" if your interested.

Here is my home page with a list of my blogs including the Railway corps.

<<SNIP>>

[jonniebgood1]

Originally Posted by vintary

That's no bother fire away.............

I also have a blog on the Irish civil war "railway corps R.P.R.&.M.C" if your interested.

Here is my home page with a list of my blogs including the Railway corps.

<<SNIP>>

This is a discussion forum and generally it is not considered polite to blatantly promote your blogs. If you wish to link to your blog in the context of a discussion then that would be fine but generally promoting ones own blog is not allowed. I have turned a blind eye to the first one as it is genuinely of interest to forum users but if you wish to continue you need to discuss the topics, not just link to them.

I would suggest that you refer to the forum charter.

I would give you as an example the Colonel Allatt mentioned in the link from your OP. The forum would welcome a discussion on him. What is his history, what was the purpose of him coming to Dublin, how did he die (I have read 2 different answers to this), how was he dealt with after his death, etc.

This is just a note for your future reference.

Moderator

[vintary]

Originally Posted by jonniebgood1

This is a discussion forum and generally it is not considered polite to blatantly promote your blogs. If you wish to link to your blog in the context of a discussion then that would be fine but generally promoting ones own blog is not allowed. I have turned a blind eye to the first one as it is genuinely of interest to forum users but if you wish to continue you need to discuss the topics, not just link to them.

I would suggest that you refer to the forum charter.

I would give you as an example the Colonel Allatt mentioned in the link from your OP. The forum would welcome a discussion on him. What is his history, what was the purpose of him coming to Dublin, how did he die (I have read 2 different answers to this), how was he dealt with after his death, etc.

This is just a note for your future reference.

Moderator

Thank you point taking....

[johnny_doyle]

Originally Posted by jonniebgood1

I would give you as an example the Colonel Allatt mentioned in the link from your OP. The forum would welcome a discussion on him. What is his history, what was the purpose of him coming to Dublin, how did he die (I have read 2 different answers to this), how was he dealt with after his death, etc.

would be interested to hear your info re his death.

1916 Rebellion Handbook has him as Killed in Action near the South Dublin Union. Forums have him as died of wounds in Belfast. Soldiers Died in the Great War has him as Died which normally means died of natural causes/disease.

Commonwealth War Graves Commission website has him attached to the Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry (his previous regiment); his medal index card has him attached to the 3rd Battalion, Royal Irish Rifles. He was a Draft Conducting Officer, tasked with bringing drafts of reinforcements of the Royal Irish Rifles to the theatre of operations. France in his case; his first entry to this theatre being 3rd August 1915. 3rd Royal Irish Rifles were based at Portobello Barracks at the time of the rising.

He was Mentioned in Despatches in Jan 1917 for his work during the Easter Rising.

The British Medical Journal has him as died of heart failure in Belfast following his exertions during the rebellion

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...07049-0028.pdf

His death registration in Belfast gives year of birth as 1839.

He was born in Feb 1847. Baptised in London in Feb 1848. English census records have him born in France. His father was a Physician with a practice in Boulogne (and then later in Dover).

He was an Ensign in October 1866 in the 46th Regiment of Foot.

He was a Lt in the 1871 census, a Captain in the 1881 census, a Major in the 1891 census and a Colonel in the 1901 census.

In the 1911 census he was a "retired Colonel of HM Land Forces".

[jonniebgood1]

Originally Posted by johnny_doyle

would be interested to hear your info re his death.

1916 Rebellion Handbook has him as Killed in Action near the South Dublin Union. Forums have him as died of wounds in Belfast. Soldiers Died in the Great War has him as Died which normally means died of natural causes/disease.

.....

The British Medical Journal has him as died of heart failure in Belfast following his exertions during the rebellion
....

The info is same as that quoted. Some sources say he died from gunshot wounds (as per your explanation).
Others say he died from a heart attack. I suppose the 2 could be related, it is also strange that he died in Belfast (particularly if it was gunshot related).

[vintary]

Thank you johnny doyle for that excellent and informably information which clearly adds to the subject.


As has been mentioned there is always several sources of references and it is my intention to put a link to this page as a topic of interest.


The information on col H.T.W Allatt is based on this article from the Irish times archive dated Thursday May 11th 1916.

[johnny_doyle]

as SDGW and his medal index card says he Died rather than Died of Wounds or Killed in Action, I'd go along with the heart attack as cause of death. If he had been wounded seriously he would have been in a Dublin hospital. The travel to Belfast was probably part of his normal role moving men from the Royal Irish Rifles battalions from Belfast and surrounds to Dublin before travelling onwards to France.

Ralph Riccio's book on AFVs In Irish Service Since 1922 has a small bit about these improvised vehicles and references Allatt as having died in Dublin.

Allatt appears to have been a career infantryman and not an engineering type so strange that he got involved with these vehicles.

The other chap involved was Colonel Portal (17th Lancers and later Brigadier General Sir Bertram Percy Portal CB DSO). Both he and Allatt had served in the Boer War. Both had been seconded from their regiments to serve as Staff Officers at points in their career.

Can't help but wonder if they had come across the armoured trains used in the Boer War and used these as the idea for the vehicles.

[jonniebgood1]

Originally Posted by johnny_doyle

as SDGW and his medal index card says he Died rather than Died of Wounds or Killed in Action, I'd go along with the heart attack as cause of death. If he had been wounded seriously he would have been in a Dublin hospital. The travel to Belfast was probably part of his normal role moving men from the Royal Irish Rifles battalions from Belfast and surrounds to Dublin before travelling onwards to France.

It seems hard to be definitive.

Colonel Henry Thomas Ward Allatt - Royal Irish Rifles. wounded near the South Dublin Union, died 8th May. A retired officer, re-employed as a recruitment officer. Aged 69. Served with the Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry. Son of Christopher and Mary. Husband of Constance, of Folkestone. Rejoined the Army in August 1914. Buried at Aldershot Military Cemetery, Hampshire. Posthumous MID. http://glosters.tripod.com/Ireland16.htm

[johnny_doyle]

Originally Posted by vintary

Thank you johnny doyle for that excellent and informably information which clearly adds to the subject.


As has been mentioned there is always several sources of references and it is my intention to put a link to this page as a topic of interest.


The information on col H.T.W Allatt is based on this article from the Irish times archive dated Thursday May 11th 1916.

I didn't realise that he was in England at the outbreak of the Rising.


As I understand it, the vehicles were constructed at Inchicore on the Wednesday and brought into action on the Thursday.

Allatt (written as Allett) is recorded in the 1916 Rebellion Handbook as being involved in the raid on Sheehy-Skeffington's house on the Friday evening with Capt Bowen-Colthurst.

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/c...colonel-allett


http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-en...-war-ala.shtml

The Military refused to produce others, Colonel Allett had died
mysteriously in the interval, according to some he committed suicide
in Belfast when Colthurst was condemned, saying, "The game is up."

[johnny_doyle]

no proof but can't help but think that the chap high on the left hand side of Vintary's photo as we look at it might be Allatt

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-CiBmFXxfiY...600/three..jpg

I've seen a reference to Allatt mentioning the use of pigeons during the Siege of Paris during the Franco-Prussian War in an article he wrote in 1886. There's an article on an Australian newspaper referencing a Col Allatt in charge of a provisional battalion using pigeons at Dover (he had a Kent connection and was based at Shorncliffe, Kent in 1894)

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/3211225

Pigeon Post at Aldershot article from 1900
http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=2727,1189323

http://newspapers.nl.sg/Digitised/Ar...1004.2.62.aspx

There is a reference here to him having served in the Franco-Prussian War

http://tonghamscouts.co.uk/Our-History.php

His probate record states died Belfast 8th May 1916.

He appears to have 2 patents to his name. One for a contraption to do with saddles, the other to do with chicken coops (he appears to have bred chickens and to have entered competitions).

[armadillo1916]

I've read many mentions of these lorries, so thanks for the work you put into this Vintary - I'm not "with" my books now, but 2 references come to mind (you may already have them...):

In his book, Inglorious Soldier (Hutchinson, London, 1968), Monk Gibbon gives a great account of the use of these armoured lorries - how loud it was inside when soldiers were firing out the slits, how they used them to pick up rebels and suspects, etc.
He was also famously a witness to Bowen-Colthurst's actions and gives a very good account of the events and aftermath.

There was also a small booklet published in 2000 which had good detail on the lorries:
AFV News, Jan-Apr 2000, Vol 35, No.1, George Bradford, Ontario, 2000 - includes British Use of Armoured Vehicles During the 1916 Easter Rebellion in Ireland by Paul V Walsh.

[vintary]

Originally Posted by armadillo1916

I've read many mentions of these lorries, so thanks for the work you put into this Vintary - I'm not "with" my books now, but 2 references come to mind (you may already have them...):

In his book, Inglorious Soldier (Hutchinson, London, 1968), Monk Gibbon gives a great account of the use of these armoured lorries - how loud it was inside when soldiers were firing out the slits, how they used them to pick up rebels and suspects, etc.
He was also famously a witness to Bowen-Colthurst's actions and gives a very good account of the events and aftermath.

There was also a small booklet published in 2000 which had good detail on the lorries:
AFV News, Jan-Apr 2000, Vol 35, No.1, George Bradford, Ontario, 2000 - includes British Use of Armoured Vehicles During the 1916 Easter Rebellion in Ireland by Paul V Walsh.

I know of the AFV news one but I have not got it as of yet.
I was not aware of Inglorious Soldier, I must keep a eye out for both Thanks...