[Themadhouse]

Gingivitis can be caused by FIV. I would advise getting your cat tested. But she is so young that even if it is positive its not a death sentence! A friend of mine had a cat that lived a great life with FIV until he was about 20yrs old. It can be controlled but i do hope your cat does not have it.
L Lysine is good to keep the immune system boosted, raw chicken wings and thighs are good. Good dental care is also important with it, try soon with a tooth brush. Dry food more so than wet food also.

Did the rescue notice this? What advice and back up have they offered?

[Sburke]

Try building up her immune system Lolo. All of mine have had some flare ups at times but with some l lysine, vet care and good diet they're all healthy thank goodness. Check her ears and nose now and again to make sure they're cool and wet...ie her ears cool and her nose wet! But don't worry if they're a little warm as she may just be comfy from sleeping in a warm place :-) s

[lolo62]

Originally Posted by Themadhouse

Gingivitis can be caused by FIV. I would advise getting your cat tested. But she is so young that even if it is positive its not a death sentence! A friend of mine had a cat that lived a great life with FIV until he was about 20yrs old. It can be controlled but i do hope your cat does not have it.
L Lysine is good to keep the immune system boosted, raw chicken wings and thighs are good. Good dental care is also important with it, try soon with a tooth brush. Dry food more so than wet food also.

Did the rescue notice this? What advice and back up have they offered?

im looking into getting her tested soon just to know either way
she drinks loads of water so all dry food is fine, ill keep her on that...as for the toothbrush, hadnt considered it but it sounds like a good idea

where can i pick up some l lysine..is it available in pet shops?

as for the rescue it was just a lady who takes in cats. i asked her several times about the cats health etc and she promised sincerely she wouldnt give me an unhealthy cat so i dont think she had a clue...i noticed the first time i fed her though so i dont know what kind of care she was getting there
i suppose when theres 10 cats wandering around its hard to spot the small details

she did say if i wasnt happy or if there were any problems i could bring the cat back
if i do that though she'll be left in the corner again on her own terrified of all the commotion and i dont think i could do that to her now, shes happy out in my place

[Sburke]

Hold tough! Flu symptoms often flare up because of stress, like settling in to a new home. You can get l lysine in any health food shop. Just give her time to settle in and hopefully she'll be fine!

[The Sweeper]

Hey lolo62

Okay, so you have a neutered young cat, 18 months with some snottyness and gingivitis.

She should have a feline AIDS test just to be sure, but hopefully she'll just have something like passing flu or herpes or chlamydia - all cause this flare up of sneezes, snottiness, watering eyes (sometimes one worse than the other), so on.

My best recommendation is to shop around your local butchers and try to get raw chicken necks, raw chicken wings and cheap, CHEAP beef in steak form. Keep her on the royal canin oral care sensitive, but feed her the dry in the morning, and a meal of raw food at night. If she'll eat raw chicken you can try moving her entirely to raw by feeding her in a ratio 80:10:10, with the 80 being raw meat including heart, 10 being bone and the other 10 being offal, half of which should be liver. Cats respond very well to a raw diet, and if you can get her to eat raw bone in the form of thin bones like chicken wings or chicken necks, then a few strips of raw beef (or chunks - something she has to chew) plus a bit of raw liver a copule of times a week, she'll do extremely well. The meat and kibble will keep her teeth clean and her gut in good working order.

Packet foods are shocking for their teeth. They're a balanced diet nutritionally, but really terrible for the teeth.

[Lizard_Moon]

Hi
I am not questioning a raw diet but how do you ensure there is no transmission of salmonella, campylobacter and other food borne disease to the people in the house?
Cats are grazers so how do you stop a chunk of raw chicken ending up somewhere where you or your kids handle. Also bacteria survive in the environment and can get spread by other people and animals in the house. kisses from the cat just after they nibbled on the chicken neck?

Of course I know committed raw feeders would have a solution but please let the novice raw feeder know these tips and risks.

I am afraid all raw meat these days must be considered contaminated with bacteria. Cooking kills these bacteria.

I am interested in the Raw feeders replies.

LM

[boomerang]

I don't think it's any different than preparing the nightly dinner, in that you just follow standard hygiene practises for handling raw meat.

If my guys get raw mince, they eat it out of their metal bowls, which then get rinsed with hot water and go in the dishwasher later.

If they have bones, they each eat their bone on a clean old handtowel, which then goes through a hot wash in the machine.

I wash my hands after handling the raw meat and I store it in the coldest part of the fridge.

But even the bit I do to prevent contamination is probably not strictly necessary. Unless you're an infant, elderly or immuno-comprised due to illness I really don't there is much of a risk. Our bodies are pretty good at dispensing with these bugs.

[Themadhouse]

We feed raw wings, thighs and beef mince. We freeze it fully and thaw each peice in the fridge for 24 hrs. We find they eat it or they dont. If they dont its taken away. We dont leave it around.
But i feed my cats twice a day, they dotn free feed so i would give them their breakfast and then they would get the raw in the evening. They eat it all at that point.

[lolo62]

going to start her on l lysine today Sburke thanks for the tip!

in relation to the raw diet i think ill start with a bit of liver or a chicken wing once a week...see how that goes

what kind of quantities would you be looking at to make a meal out of a piece of meat?

if im feeding 70 gramms of royal canin dry (recommended amount for 4.6k cat) and i give half that for one meal how much liver or chicken would make up the rest for a days food?

thanks!

[Lizard_Moon]

Boomerang
I am glad you are aware of the risks and have put in place a method to decrease the chance of cross contamination of your own food and the raw food.
However I never see these precautions being discussed when raw diets are being promoted. I would be surprised if every novice adopter of these feeding regimes were that diligent in respect of hygiene.
As a vet I am probably hyper aware of the need to prevent bacterial cross-contamination.

Originally Posted by boomerang

But even the bit I do to prevent contamination is probably not strictly necessary. Unless you're an infant, elderly or immuno-comprised due to illness I really don't there is much of a risk. Our bodies are pretty good at dispensing with these bugs.

Food poisoning is unpleasant and whilst normal healthy adults shouldn't die vomiting and diarrhoea is not an experience to be celebrated.
This thread is about raw feeding cats. Do you cats not drag their tasty raw chicken off your towel? Or use there paws to hold on to it and then jump on a surface you then touch?
Many cat owners may also have children, may have elderly relations who visit, may be pregnant and may be immunocompromised without knowing it.

This is a link to info on salmonella, campylobacter, listeria and e coli from the Food Safety Authority of Ireland.
http://www.safefood.eu/Consumer/Unde...Poisoning.aspx

[The Sweeper]

Lizard Moon, I have a number of cats, and a dog, and have been feed them raw for a number of years, so it's probably fair to say I have prepared and served up literally thousands of raw meals. Nobody in the house has been poisoned yet.

First, I assume the same food safety precautions I would when preparing raw meat for my own dinner - feeding only 'good' meat. The dog can manage meat that's on the turn (and does with great gusto) but the cats won't touch that.

Not that everyone has to go to these extremes, but I actually have a separate fridge for my pet meat. This was more serendipitous than deliberate - I moved house, my fridge wouldn't fit in the fridge nook in the fitted kitchen so I bought a second fridge and the first is now dedicated to beer and food for the animals.

The pet meat I buy, because I buy in bulk, can bleed a lot when it defrosts, and having a separate fridge allows me to clean up easily if that happens. So here's a tip:

*Always defrost pet meat in a bowl or other container in your fridge, so if it bleeds it won't contaminate other food stuffs.*

When I handle the pet meat, I use standard precautions - I wash my hands before and after I touch it, I use a meat specific chopping board and when I'm done I wash the board and the knife with very hot water and soap and then I wash down the counter and will use a surface spray.

*Take the same precautions with pet meat as you would with your own meat.*

As for feeding, I have a range of cheap ceramic dishes I feed my pets on - they don't have one bowl. Subsequently they get a clean dish at every single meal. My cats have a separate room in the house and there's lino on that floor, so I feed the cats in their room and if they drag meat around they do it aroud the lino in their own space. Every morning before feeding my cats I clean through their litter trays, collect the previous night's dishes and quickly swipe the lino with a mop that's been well wrung out in a solution of dillute disinfectant.

The pet dishes are washed in the dishwasher - I have no qualms about that, the dishwasher gets hot enough that I'm satisifed it does a good job.

As for transference of bacteria through contact - we do not prepare food on surfaces in this house without wiping the surfaces with a cloth rinsed in hot water and some surface spray (usually containing bleach). That isn't because we feed raw - that's because we have six cats, some of whom wander across the kitchen counters when they feel like it. Whether they were fed raw or kibble, counter wiping is automatic before food preparation.

You're right that a novice may not realise that you need to observe hygiene when preparing raw meals or raw feeding your cat or dog, but I wonder whether there is any need for greater precautions in terms of what your raw fed pet comes in contact with - even kibble fed cats walk across the sofa and the counter with the same paws they scrabble about in the litter tray with. If you can manage that, why not manage raw feeding?

To lolo62, try starting your cat with a single raw chicken neck for its evening meal. Be prepared, she may 'kill' it all over again, throwing it around the place and so on. As per the above conversation, you'll need to clean up the space she's in after she's done that. You can hit the neck with a hammer to make it more easy for her to eat (observing usual hygiene precautions). If she'll eat a chicken neck, that means she'll eat raw bone (often the most difficult part of the raw diet - plenty of cats will chew raw meat strips but won't touch bone). If she'll eat bone, you can consider moving to a raw diet (hygiene aspects taken into consideration). That could be a raw, fresh chicken neck every morning (one a day), and for her evening meal, some chunks of raw meat (never mince, they need the chewing action) and twice to three times a week, a small piece of raw liver (a 1.5 inch cube or thereabouts).

In terms of how much meat, based on cubes - about 1.5 inch cubes, the kind you'd use cooking a beef stew - try three cubes for one meal. If she won't eat them all, try two cubes. If she's begging for more, push it to four cubes. If you're still feeding kibble, half that down - one to two cubes of meat for a meal.

I find a number of benefits from feeding raw - but I can't feed all raw, because my cats just will not tackle raw chicken necks. They were recommended by my vet to keep their teeth clean (in fact, he insisted I try them, and when I discussed how my cats wouldn't have a bar of them he went through how long they can go without food. I fed chicken necks at every meal, morning and night, for three days, and offered nothing else, before I cracked.)

Subsequently I feed royal canin oral care sensitive for one meal, and raw meat for the other. I feed tough meat in large chunks so they absolutely have to chew and eat slowly. They get liver occasionally - twice a week maybe, a cube each. I find far less incidence of vomiting after eating (can happen from scarfing down bite-sized food like kibble or processed bits in gravy far too quickly). I also haven't seen a single hair ball in this house - not one, ever.

Give it a try, along with L-lysine on her food for a bit (try 1/3 of a 500mg tablet, sprinkled on her food morning and night for a week, so in other words she should get approximately 2/3 of 500mg each day).

[lolo62]

Originally Posted by The Sweeper

To lolo62, try starting your cat with a single raw chicken neck for its evening meal. Be prepared, she may 'kill' it all over again, throwing it around the place and so on. As per the above conversation, you'll need to clean up the space she's in after she's done that. You can hit the neck with a hammer to make it more easy for her to eat (observing usual hygiene precautions). If she'll eat a chicken neck, that means she'll eat raw bone (often the most difficult part of the raw diet - plenty of cats will chew raw meat strips but won't touch bone). If she'll eat bone, you can consider moving to a raw diet (hygiene aspects taken into consideration). That could be a raw, fresh chicken neck every morning (one a day), and for her evening meal, some chunks of raw meat (never mince, they need the chewing action) and twice to three times a week, a small piece of raw liver (a 1.5 inch cube or thereabouts).

In terms of how much meat, based on cubes - about 1.5 inch cubes, the kind you'd use cooking a beef stew - try three cubes for one meal. If she won't eat them all, try two cubes. If she's begging for more, push it to four cubes. If you're still feeding kibble, half that down - one to two cubes of meat for a meal.

I find a number of benefits from feeding raw - but I can't feed all raw, because my cats just will not tackle raw chicken necks. They were recommended by my vet to keep their teeth clean (in fact, he insisted I try them, and when I discussed how my cats wouldn't have a bar of them he went through how long they can go without food. I fed chicken necks at every meal, morning and night, for three days, and offered nothing else, before I cracked.)

Subsequently I feed royal canin oral care sensitive for one meal, and raw meat for the other. I feed tough meat in large chunks so they absolutely have to chew and eat slowly. They get liver occasionally - twice a week maybe, a cube each. I find far less incidence of vomiting after eating (can happen from scarfing down bite-sized food like kibble or processed bits in gravy far too quickly). I also haven't seen a single hair ball in this house - not one, ever.

Give it a try, along with L-lysine on her food for a bit (try 1/3 of a 500mg tablet, sprinkled on her food morning and night for a week, so in other words she should get approximately 2/3 of 500mg each day).

great thanks for taking the time to give me that info!
sounds straight forward enough, not looking forward to handling meat but as a certified cat slave i guess its my duty

[lolo62]

so i brought flower to another vet to get tested for the FIV and FLV virus and the guy didnt have what he needed to do them!?! im not having much luck with vets it seems. apparently the main vet was on holidays and he was just filling in

on the plus side he gave me an anti-biotic for the swallowing problem and a pain killer, she'll be on those for a week. at least he treated her, ive to go back in two weeks for the blood tests.

last time i had cats i found the vet i went to great but i was a lot younger and more naive, starting to think the whole profession is a bit of a racket now!

anyone take their kitties to holistic vets?

[The Sweeper]

I'd steer away from holistic treatment initially until you know precisely what's going on with the kitty.

Where are you based? Folks on here may be able to give you vet recommendations.

[lolo62]

of course...still going to have her tested alright but i need to find a vet who takes a more holistic approach in examining and treating the cat as the approach ive seen by two vets so far akes no sense to me

im in inchicore btw