[1ZRed]

Originally Posted by The Brigadier

It is a truth that all Catholics MUST believe. There are lots of things that Catholics have to believe - if they don't they can always join one of the protestant churches.

Do you really think it is OK for a Catholic Priest to espouse views contrary to the Catholic faith?

That's true. It's all or nothing. The ideals and beliefs that define what a catholic is are set in stone.
You can't pick and choose what to believe because it's either all true or none of it is.
If you start to ignore bits of the religion, then you're changing it into another religion.
That said though, I support changes that mean that there is more emphasis put on equality and equal rights within the church in regards to homosexuality and their ability to teach in primary schools etc.

[Benny_Cake]

Originally Posted by 1ZRed

That's true. It's all or nothing. The ideals and beliefs that define what a catholic is are set in stone.
You can't pick and choose what to believe because it's either all true or none of it is.
If you start to ignore bits of the religion, then you're changing it into another religion.
That said though, I support changes that mean that there is more emphasis put on equality and equal rights within the church in regards to homosexuality and their ability to teach in primary schools etc.

I'd like to see how that would work in the real world. So belief in the Resurrection, the fact that woman can't be admitted to the priesthood, and the band on artificial contraception are all of equal important? I'd have thought the first one was a tad more important!

You support changes in relation to how homosexuality is approached within the church? That's good, so do I. But you do realise that someone can come along and say "the Catholic Church’s teaching on homosexuality is set in stone and can't be changed, it's all or nothing". Taken to it's ultimate extreme you would be left with a church which would be doing well if it included 8.4% of the population, not 84% - just look at how many Catholics are using artificial contraception!

[lmaopml]

I use contraception and am a Catholic, as Catholic as the next person.

I'm not trying to change the doctrine on using contraception within the Church to suit me, and am still a part of the same Church, does it 'hurt' sometimes, is it 'difficult' sometimes to accept this teaching? - heck yes it is, very difficult, in fact it's very difficult to be perfect and there are very few perfect Catholics, struggling ones yes, but perfect no.........so I'm in good company in the pews.

I think of myself as falling below the bar along with everybody else and try my best as I go along - I'm not excluded by the Church, nobody kicks me out. I go off to confession once in a while and I make my peace as best I can and as honestly as possible - one cannot do anymore than that I don't think.

[Cossax]

Originally Posted by gimmebroadband

Priests represent Christ, In Persona Christi, and Christ is also the 'Bridegroom' a female cannot be a bridegroom.

As for Fr. Flannery, was it 'freedom of expression', or something more? That's probably why there is an investigation to determine what it is! Anyhow, may God bless Fr. Flannery and all our Priests, they need our prayers!

So do the majority of Irish 'catholics' it'd seem.

[prinz]

Originally Posted by Benny_Cake

Taken to it's ultimate extreme you would be left with a church which would be doing well if it included 8.4% of the population, not 84% - just look at how many Catholics are using artificial contraception!

I'd rather see a church with 8.4% living by the principles of their faith than 84% making it up as they go along to suit themselves. As lmaopml alludes to before it's better to be aware of a area where you are falling short, rather than dragging the bar down to your level. Look at how many Catholics lie, are selfish, are bad husbands, wives, fathers, siblings, friends, steal, lust, envy. Should the Church change it's position on these to suit the masses?

[gimmebroadband]

I would say that many married couples no longer use contraceptives when they have decided their family is complete, but opt instead for surgery - such as women getting their tubes tied, and men getting the snip.

[gimmebroadband]

Originally Posted by Cossax

So do the majority of Irish 'catholics' it'd seem.

It would seem so! I could always do with a few extra prayers myself!

[1ZRed]

Originally Posted by Benny_Cake

I'd like to see how that would work in the real world. So belief in the Resurrection, the fact that woman can't be admitted to the priesthood, and the band on artificial contraception are all of equal important? I'd have thought the first one was a tad more important!

You support changes in relation to how homosexuality is approached within the church? That's good, so do I. But you do realise that someone can come along and say "the Catholic Church’s teaching on homosexuality is set in stone and can't be changed, it's all or nothing". Taken to it's ultimate extreme you would be left with a church which would be doing well if it included 8.4% of the population, not 84% - just look at how many Catholics are using artificial contraception!

That's very true. I said I would like change but I don't see it happening. And if you take my point and play it the way you did, then no, that change won't come.

We're in the bible does it even say that contraception is sinful or whatever?
I fail to see how a book written 2k years ago when people believed in magic and superstition can withhold in modern times.
Granted it does condem homosexuality but it does glorify incest, murder and rape also. So it seems people have been picking at choosing what to read or ignore for centuries even though it all is set in stone as I said.
In my opinion, I think that the whole business of organised religion is highly hypocritical and it amazes me that the majority of people still follow its teachings.

[Morbert]

Originally Posted by lmaopml

I use contraception and am a Catholic, as Catholic as the next person.

I'm not trying to change the doctrine on using contraception within the Church to suit me, and am still a part of the same Church, does it 'hurt' sometimes, is it 'difficult' sometimes to accept this teaching? - heck yes it is, very difficult, in fact it's very difficult to be perfect and there are very few perfect Catholics, struggling ones yes, but perfect no.........so I'm in good company in the pews.

I think of myself as falling below the bar along with everybody else and try my best as I go along - I'm not excluded by the Church, nobody kicks me out. I go off to confession once in a while and I make my peace as best I can and as honestly as possible - one cannot do anymore than that I don't think.

If I interpret this correctly, you believe it is immoral to use contraceptives. What would your opinion be towards someone who called themselves Catholic, but believed the Church is wrong when it comes to contraceptives, or women priests?

[Sparkyd2002]

Originally Posted by 1ZRed

That's true. It's all or nothing. The ideals and beliefs that define what a catholic is are set in stone.
.

Where is this stone? Id love to see it and see where exactly it condemns use of rubbers,coil, pill etc. Its my understanding the catholic church is just that, a church, or body of beliefs that are as a result of a group of people who believe in a certain code laid out by interpretations of the new and old testaments. There are other Christian churches with flavours of similar beliefs but different rules, all laid down by men/women btw.Arent lots of beliefs subject to change? Mass on Saturday for Sunday once not allowed, Limbo - no longer exists etc.....

[phutyle]

Originally Posted by gimmebroadband

I would say that many married couples no longer use contraceptives when they have decided their family is complete, but opt instead for surgery - such as women getting their tubes tied, and men getting the snip.

But such procedures are are methods of contraception, and also against Catholic teaching, even within marriage:

http://catholic.christianityinview.c...#contraception

[Sparkyd2002]

Originally Posted by phutyle

But such procedures are are methods of contraception, and also against Catholic teaching, even within marriage:

http://catholic.christianityinview.c...#contraception

yes but against the views as setout by the Pope in humanae Vitae and as such are not SET in STONE as a previosu poster suggested or is the belief that the view in papal encyclicals cannot be ever questioned because of papal infallability?

[gimmebroadband]

Originally Posted by phutyle

But such procedures are are methods of contraception, and also against Catholic teaching, even within marriage:

http://catholic.christianityinview.c...#contraception

I never said it wasn't, I know exactly what the CC teaches on contraception. I just mentioned it because it's more permanent and less costly for married couples who want no more children!

[1ZRed]

But why is the church so apposed to contraception? Lets say for the sake of argument that the 84% of catholics were to discard condoms or birth control pills, how many SDT and unwanted pregnancy reports would arise? not to mention a massive increase of serious diseases such as HIV.
If anything the church should be over ruled on their point of contraception because it could cause health problems if the most basic and effective form of contraception (condoms) were to be discarded for the sake of religion.

[prinz]

Originally Posted by 1ZRed

But why is the church so apposed to contraception? Lets say for the sake of argument that the 84% of catholics were to discard condoms or birth control pills, how many SDT and unwanted pregnancy reports would arise? not to mention a massive increase of serious diseases such as HIV..

Why would it automatically result in increased rates STD's, and a " massive increase of serious diseases" such as HIV (as if other STD's weren't serious enough in their own right)? Doesn't the Catholic Church have something to say about no sex before marriage... and sexual fidelity to your then spouse? Let's say these Catholics you talk about start using condoms with the blessing of the RCC.... as long as they adhere to other church teachings where would this massive increase in HIV arise from?