[Zulu]

Why do we accept overtly aggressive posts?

As a society, we are more active on-line, and this affords us the ability to speak & act anonymously. Born out of this is the keyboard warrior. The user who posts with feckless abandon, safe in the knowledge that they post without having to take responsibility for their utterances. They can spout a caustic bile, a bile they'd never dare mention in public, in the real world for fear of being ostracised, or assaulted!

This phenomenon isn't unique to on-line media: the safety provided by a car can bring out similar characteristics. There is one subtle difference though. If someone in a car cut you up, or cuts you off at a junction, the next 3 or 4 cars don't "thank" the culprit. There's no flashing of lights, to signal - job well done! No, thankfully, there's an acknowledgment that they're being a dick.

Take our boards. Assuming other posters agree with the salient point of a poster, posters (some) are only more than happy to "thank" an aggressive, caustic post. The culprit is de-facto congratulated. Why? Because we're on their side of the argument? That’s good enough now?? Why do we let this happen???

Sure we have trolls, we have people who are looking for a rise, we have argumentative people, and aggressive people. But why do we let the tone of our online lives be mired with wanton aggression? These posts shouldn't be thanked, they should be banned. There should be no warnings for a personal attack, it should be instantaneous time out.

As a society, we need to stamp this out, it's not good enough. We are building constructs where it's acceptable to be a horrible individual. Wouldn't you agree?

[moe_sizlak]

Originally Posted by Zulu

Why do we accept overtly aggressive posts?

As a society, we are more active on-line, and this affords us the ability to speak & act anonymously. Born out of this is the keyboard warrior. The user who posts with feckless abandon, safe in the knowledge that they post without having to take responsibility for their utterances. They can spout a caustic bile, a bile they'd never dare mention in public, in the real world for fear of being ostracised, or assaulted!

This phenomenon isn't unique to on-line media: the safety provided by a car can bring out similar characteristics. There is one subtle difference though. If someone in a car cut you up, or cuts you off at a junction, the next 3 or 4 cars don't "thank" the culprit. There's no flashing of lights, to signal - job well done! No, thankfully, there's an acknowledgment that they're being a dick.

Take our boards. Assuming other posters agree with the salient point of a poster, posters (some) are only more than happy to "thank" an aggressive, caustic post. The culprit is de-facto congratulated. Why? Because we're on their side of the argument? That’s good enough now?? Why do we let this happen???

Sure we have trolls, we have people who are looking for a rise, we have argumentative people, and aggressive people. But why do we let the tone of our online lives be mired with wanton aggression? These posts shouldn't be thanked, they should be banned. There should be no warnings for a personal attack, it should be instantaneous time out.

As a society, we need to stamp this out, it's not good enough. We are building constructs where it's acceptable to be a horrible individual. Wouldn't you agree?

im not a regular poster but i read boards quite a bit , from what ive observed , boards is pretty strict when it comes to overly confrontational posts or posts which stray from broadly speaking , conventional thinking on most subjects , compared to politics.ie , boards is very congenial in discourse

after hours would be the exception to the above of course

[Sleepy]

I'd agree to the extent that there are civil ways of doing things and the trolling / "Yore Ma" thanks whoring is simply annoying...

But, there are times when an idiotic idea needs to be treated as such. We are socially conditioned not to ridicule the beliefs of another, no matter how ludicrous they may be. We worry too much in society about offending people imho. To quote Stephen Fry:

It's now very common to hear people say 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights; it's actually nothing more...it's simply a whine. 'I find that offensive,' it has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I'm offended by that,' well so ****ing what?

In real life, where real relationships are at stake we often put up with other's prejudices, misguided notions and idiosyncrasies for the sake of a quiet life.

We're reluctant to call religion a load of bollocks in real life because it might offend our Granny, Elderly Aunt or parents.

We excuse casual racism or homophobic bull**** on the basis that the person espousing it is "from another age" or simply because we want to have a peaceful cab journey that doesn't involve a row.

We roll our eyes internally when the girl in the office starts recommending the great homoeopath who "cured" her ingrown toenail rather than laughing at her stupidity.

On forums such as boards where we might not know any, or only a handful of posters in real life, we don't have to worry about maintaining a quiet life. We can be brutally honest in our opinions and convictions without fear of it causing hassle in our day to day lives.

You don't find the same level of derision quite so often on the likes of Facebook where one's network mirrors one's real-life social network and there's a chance that you're going to end up in an argument with someone in real life. Confrontation is a lot easier dealt with using the written word. You have time to measure your response, you don't need the glib, quick wit of a comedian or barrister to make your point and, as you alluded to, there's no fear of the person you're arguing with losing the rag and belting you for making them feel stupid or offending them.

[Zulu]

Originally Posted by moe_sizlak

im not a regular poster but i read boards quite a bit , from what ive observed , boards is pretty strict when it comes to overly confrontational posts or posts which stray from broadly speaking , conventional thinking on most subjects , compared to politics.ie , boards is very congenial in discourse

after hours would be the exception to the above of course

Ok, granted. But as you say afterhours, and take other on-line forums. Why as an on-line community do we accept it?

[Zulu]

But Sleepy, why is it acceptable?

The reason we don't ridicule in real life applies to the on line community all the same, however we don't apply it. It doesn't benefit me to belittle or mock someone's personal beliefs in an outright aggressive way. I could just as easily & succinctly, point out a blatant gap in their logic in a polite way.

You wouldn't berate and belittle a child in the physical world, but posters don't hesitate to consider they could be doing just that on-line.

And I get and accept your point - you are of course correct, but why do we allow it. Do we all secretly what to live in a society, where all things being equal, is quick to ridicule those that don't agree with us? Is there no room for civility in the on-line arena?


...and as for Stephen Fry, he's a gent! I don't see him posting aggressive, or caustic posts. He'll post something witty & though provoking, sure but I don't see him aggressively berating the Archbishop of Canterbury. I suspect Stephen would proffer the man civil & courteous respect.

[DeVore]

It isn't acceptable.

[Zombrex]

Originally Posted by Zulu

Why do we accept overtly aggressive posts?

As a society, we are more active on-line, and this affords us the ability to speak & act anonymously. Born out of this is the keyboard warrior. The user who posts with feckless abandon, safe in the knowledge that they post without having to take responsibility for their utterances. They can spout a caustic bile, a bile they'd never dare mention in public, in the real world for fear of being ostracised, or assaulted!

This phenomenon isn't unique to on-line media: the safety provided by a car can bring out similar characteristics. There is one subtle difference though. If someone in a car cut you up, or cuts you off at a junction, the next 3 or 4 cars don't "thank" the culprit. There's no flashing of lights, to signal - job well done! No, thankfully, there's an acknowledgment that they're being a dick.

Take our boards. Assuming other posters agree with the salient point of a poster, posters (some) are only more than happy to "thank" an aggressive, caustic post. The culprit is de-facto congratulated. Why? Because we're on their side of the argument? That’s good enough now?? Why do we let this happen???

Sure we have trolls, we have people who are looking for a rise, we have argumentative people, and aggressive people. But why do we let the tone of our online lives be mired with wanton aggression? These posts shouldn't be thanked, they should be banned. There should be no warnings for a personal attack, it should be instantaneous time out.

As a society, we need to stamp this out, it's not good enough. We are building constructs where it's acceptable to be a horrible individual. Wouldn't you agree?

I think the premise of your argument, that it is acceptable, is flawed. Boards.ie is a good example, aggressive posts that attack a poster are in breach of pretty much every charter on these forums, and will be met with disciplinary action by the mods.

[Zulu]

Originally Posted by DeVore

It isn't acceptable.

Isn't it? To you perhaps it isn't, but sadly DeVore that doesn't cut it. It exists. It's a growing problem online. As a society we are responding too slowly. I genuinely feel sorry for adolescents growing up in todays online community.
Teenage insecurity, sexting & cyberbullying...

Originally Posted by Zombrex

I think the premise of your argument, that it is acceptable, is flawed. Boards.ie is a good example, aggressive posts that attack a poster are in breach of pretty much every charter on these forums, and will be met with disciplinary action by the mods.

Bahhh, look, I didn't post this in "feedback" for a reason. I really want to keep this bigger than boards.

But on that, and all you need to do is take a look at one thread on abortion or religion to see that's not true. There's plenty of overtly aggressive posts, some go checked, some get infractions, some even get bans... but loads are let slide.

[aidan24326]

You're setting up a strawman argument really. Making out this is some kind of serious societal problem. It isn't. In the list of problems facing the world right now this would probably come, in terms of importance, at about number 5 million. And as others have said boards is heavily moderated. If other sites aren't then don't frequent them.

And I fully agree with Stephen Fry that there's far too much of this 'offended' crap these days. If you don't like what somebody has to say just ignore them. Other than that I say tough sh1t, get over it. People take offence, or at least claim to, far too easily, and it's driving a lot of this political-correctness plague.

[Zulu]

Originally Posted by aidan24326

You're setting up a strawman argument really.

How? You don't think aggression exists in on-line media?

Making out this is some kind of serious societal problem. It isn't. In the list of problems facing the world right now this would probably come, in terms of importance, at about number 5 million.

Well thats true, but because there are greater problems, doesn't mean we can't discuss or explore lesser ones. The "first world problems" meme isn't conducive to a discussion in Humanities.

And as others have said boards is heavily moderated. If other sites aren't then don't frequent them.

But that's a strawman; it's tantamount to saying: well if you don't like thieving, don't do it. It appears that your solution to the problem is: ignore it.

Perhaps it is a PC plague, but all I'm talking about is civility.

[aidan24326]

Originally Posted by Zulu

How? You don't think aggression exists in on-line media?

But what does it really mean to say somebody is being aggressive in an online forum? At the end of the day all they're doing is typing words on a keyboard, which are easily ignored or can be dismissed as the rantings of an ignorant fool, of which I'm well aware there's plenty around. Those words can only be offensive if you choose to let them be. And btw, I do agree that some forums could do a with bit more boards-style modding, but the internet being the big beast it has become it's inevitable that you'll get all shades of everything.

But that's a strawman; it's tantamount to saying: well if you don't like thieving, don't do it. It appears that your solution to the problem is: ignore it.

I wasn't saying ignore the problem, I was saying that I don't see as that big a problem in the first place. Taking offence to what some eejit says on an internet forum is only a problem if you personally allow it to bother you. I do agree however that it's a different issue with kids where cyber-bulling and the like actually has become a problem (but I'm assuming you're an adult).

[Zulu]

Originally Posted by aidan24326

But what does it really mean to say somebody is being aggressive in an online forum? At the end of the day all they're doing is typing words on a keyboard, which are easily ignored or can be dismissed as the rantings of an ignorant fool, of which I'm well aware there's plenty around.

But Aidan, that is easily applied to speech. All it is is words, which can easily be ignored... ...yet as a society we don't accept that. It's acceptable for you to talk to me in a certain manner in a social interaction. It's not cool for you to openly belittle and ridicule me on the street, even if I can choose to ignore you - seeing as they are only spoken words...

Those words can only be offensive if you choose to let them be.

Ok, I think you might be missing my point a little. While what you are posting is true, I'm not talking about the person getting offended: leave them aside.
I'm talking about us, the greater community who watch, and sometimes congratulate a poster for being aggressive. Leave the receiving poster aside. Why isn't there a flood of posts along the line of "woooh there, easy up Zulu, he's only making a point. No need to be so aggressive. The man's allowed to voice his opinion/make a mistake - it's not cool being rude"? Why don't we do that??

And btw, I do agree that some forums could do a with bit more boards-style modding, but the internet being the big beast it has become it's inevitable that you'll get all shades of everything.

Yup, you will indeed, but a society will be as bad as it's allowed to be.

I do agree however that it's a different issue with kids where cyber-bulling and the like actually has become a problem (but I'm assuming you're an adult).

You see it's not a different issue at all, I feel. We learn from our peers. We have manners because they were taught to us. If we let on-line communities be abrasive, or aggressive, then younger posters will take from that. I think part of the reason it's so hard for kids could be because adults are being asshats to each other! Just like in society, if a child grows up in an environment with no respect or manners, they're very unlikely to lick it off a stone! No?

[aidan24326]

I'm talking about us, the greater community who watch, and sometimes congratulate a poster for being aggressive. Leave the receiving poster aside. Why isn't there a flood of posts along the line of "woooh there, easy up Zulu, he's only making a point. No need to be so aggressive

There does tend to be posts like that though, where people get called out on saying something overtly abusive. And if people are sometimes assholes on internet forums I guess that only mirrors what we see in the real world (see the thread on 'should I report racist abuse', for a good example of the morons that are out there).

[Zulu]

Originally Posted by aidan24326

There does tend to be posts like that though,..

Yeah but... ...no but... ...yeah but...
In fairness, sadly, they are the exception rather than the rule (considering the larger on-line community), wouldn't you agree?

[Wibbs]

Originally Posted by moe_sizlak

im not a regular poster but i read boards quite a bit , from what ive observed , boards is pretty strict when it comes to overly confrontational posts or posts which stray from broadly speaking , conventional thinking on most subjects , compared to politics.ie , boards is very congenial in discourse

+1. It's about the strictest and least aggressive broad spectrum forums there is. That's what I've found anyway.

after hours would be the exception to the above of course

I dunno AH gets a real bad rap from some quarters IMH. People get banned damn near hourly for aggressive posting and other asshattery in AH. We're also back to what's considered acceptable. Some people are more thick skinned than others and vice versa, but overall, indeed IMHO in the vast amount of examples the middle ground is covered pretty well around here.