[RealExpert]

You must be easily impressed.They are the opposite to robin hood,they rob the poor to make the rich even richer.Dont forget about all his empty promises and all the jobs he has created since getting into office (I cant find the figures anywhere why? cos there are none) Bunch of wasters all of them feather your own nest and **** everyone else is the mentality of those people.They havent a clue what its like to be on the poverty line.The cost of the St Patricks day trips abroad at the taxpayers expense if there are any left is probably twice the money that Im going to get this year.I dont get free travel or wined and dined why should they in times like this.Its not FG fault its the Irish people for sitting back and allow themselves to be trampled on.I hope the majority of them has the guts to stick by their guns and not pay the household tax or septic tank tax either and thats just to start.

[darkman2]

Originally Posted by RealExpert

I dont get free travel or wined and dined why should they

Should have gone to college, worked hard and got a better job then shouldn't you?

[southsiderosie]

Originally Posted by RealExpert

You must be easily impressed.They are the opposite to robin hood,they rob the poor to make the rich even richer.Dont forget about all his empty promises and all the jobs he has created since getting into office (I cant find the figures anywhere why? cos there are none) Bunch of wasters all of them feather your own nest and **** everyone else is the mentality of those people.They havent a clue what its like to be on the poverty line.The cost of the St Patricks day trips abroad at the taxpayers expense if there are any left is probably twice the money that Im going to get this year.I dont get free travel or wined and dined why should they in times like this.Its not FG fault its the Irish people for sitting back and allow themselves to be trampled on.I hope the majority of them has the guts to stick by their guns and not pay the household tax or septic tank tax either and thats just to start.

Originally Posted by darkman2

Should have gone to college, worked hard and got a better job then shouldn't you?

MOD NOTE:

Tone it down, please. The former is veering into ranty-land, and the latter is overly personal.

[darkman2]

Originally Posted by southsiderosie

MOD NOTE:

Tone it down, please. The former is veering into ranty-land, and the latter is overly personal.

Sorry, just thought it was a good way to stress the point that begrudgery is still alive and well in our society, more so then most.

[Carlos_Ray]

Frankly I think the man is a disgrace. He's merely continuing the style of government that preceded him. Keep your cronies sweet and to hell with the plebians. He's still the highest paid leader in Western Europe, backed by some of the highest paid politicians who are forcing through draconian fiscal measures on a country devastated by recession. Its disgusting. The gap between the rich and poor is increasing at an accelerated rate, and the poor man is footing the bill for mistakes made by the rich. He has done nothing for the average person and he has failed to pursue and charge any of the people responsible for the mess we're in. He's even on record, blaming the the average Irish person for the recession, when he was trying to cosy up with the Europeans. He's cowardly, shallow, greedy, and ineffectual. So when alls said and done, he's right up their with all the other leaders of the last thirty years.

[darkman2]

Originally Posted by Carlos_Ray

blaming the the average Irish person for the recession

Sorry to burst the bubble but the average Irish person is partly to blame for this mess. That's a fact. No gun was put to the head of "average" Irish people that went mad on credit which was a darn large percentage of "average" Irish people. People choose to live beyond their means. Now they get the swing of it and must take responsibility for their failings in financial discipline.

[_Gawd_]

Originally Posted by darkman2

Sorry to burst the bubble but the average Irish person is partly to blame for this mess. That's a fact. No gun was put to the head of "average" Irish people that went mad on credit which was a darn large percentage of "average" Irish people. People choose to live beyond their means. Now they get the swing of it and must take responsibility for their failings in financial discipline.

The people are not to blame - every Tom, Dick and Harry went into AIB and came out with a loan. Why wouldn't they? It was up to the banks to say "hang on here, we're running a business and if we're not careful we could go bust"...but why should they? The EU's expansion of easy credit into the Eurozone flooded Ireland with cheap money encouraging malinvestments...why do you think people took out loans? Most probably to buy houses and that's where the lot of it ended up, the property bubbles.

In fact, Ireland is a textbook case of the Austrian Business Cycle Theory. If you think Enda Kenny has anything to contribute to this country or it's people, then you're kidding yourself because these people are well off the mark in their worldview of basic economics. It was FG that agreed to the bailouts....is there anything wrong you see in that?!?!? It's pathetic.

[V_Moth]

Originally Posted by darkman2

Sorry to burst the bubble but the average Irish person is partly to blame for this mess. That's a fact. No gun was put to the head of "average" Irish people that went mad on credit which was a darn large percentage of "average" Irish people. People choose to live beyond their means. Now they get the swing of it and must take responsibility for their failings in financial discipline.

Why won't this canard of borrowers being to blame die? Ultimately it was the responsibility of the lender to ensure that the person getting the loan can repay it. They failed this responsibility in the search for short-term profits.

[darkman2]

Originally Posted by _Gawd_

The people are not to blame - every Tom, Dick and Harry went into AIB and came out with a loan. Why wouldn't they? It was up to the banks to say "hang on here, we're running a business and if we're not careful we could go bust"...but why should they? The EU's expansion of easy credit into the Eurozone flooded Ireland with cheap money encouraging malinvestments...why do you think people took out loans? Most probably to buy houses and that's where the lot of it ended up, the property bubbles.

In fact, Ireland is a textbook case of the Austrian Business Cycle Theory. If you think Enda Kenny has anything to contribute to this country or it's people, then you're kidding yourself because these people are well off the mark in their worldview of basic economics. It was FG that agreed to the bailouts....is there anything wrong you see in that?!?!? It's pathetic.

Firstly - I didn't live far beyond my means. So your theory ends there. I and a good minority of the population were sensible. Why should I have any sympathy for the greedy part of our "average" population (not only bankers and speculators) that behaved so recklessly with their personal finances? Why? Can you answer that? I watched clowns in my own area - taxi drivers - driving brand new mercs every couple of years (2 on my street alone), holidays every few months - a fcuking window cleaner getting big extensions on his very modest house, the holidays, the cars everything else recklessly knowingly beyond their means on credit. Why should those of us who were sensible have to put up with this idea of having to bail these "average" people out? They fecked up along with the banks and politicians. They should take the consequences of their actions. They had a good time. I was restrained, I didn't. The people who were restrained through the boom are the ones who really should be protected in all this.

Secondly don't start about the bailout. It's simple. As a country we had no choice. It was live or die - take it or don't take it. Anyone who claims this country had any leverage at all over that is dangerously deluded IMO. The likes of Joe Higgins and that can talk all the nonsense they want, they will never be in Government. The Government has to behave sensibly and delicately because the stakes for us as a country cannot be higher.

The consequence of this is that we now live in a country that no one will lend to. To be honest Ireland's people have shown themselves incapable of self governance. That's the be all and end all of it. Hence our sovereignty has been removed.

[_Gawd_]

Originally Posted by darkman2

Firstly - I didn't live far beyond my means. So your theory ends there. I and a good minority of the population were sensible. Why should I have any sympathy for the greedy part of our "average" population (not only bankers and speculators) that behaved so recklessly with their personal finances? Why? Can you answer that? I watched clowns in my own area - taxi drivers - driving brand new mercs every couple of years (2 on my street alone), holidays every few months - a fcuking window cleaner getting big extensions on his very modest house, the holidays, the cars everything else recklessly knowingly beyond their means on credit. Why should those of us who were sensible have to put up with this idea of having to bail these "average" people out? They fecked up along with the banks and politicians. They should take the consequences of their actions. They had a good time. I was restrained, I didn't. The people who were restrained through the boom are the ones who really should be protected in all this.

Secondly don't start about the bailout. It's simple. As a country we had no choice. It was live or die - take it or don't take it. Anyone who claims this country had any leverage at all over that is dangerously deluded IMO. The like of Joe Higgins and that can talk all the nonsense they want, they will never be in Government. The Government has to behave sensible and delicately because the stakes for us as a country cannot be higher.

Well, first of all I'm no Joe Higgins fan. I'm a Capitalist which is more than I can say for Kenny and Co. The mere fact that you claim we had no choice - it was do or die just confirms your grasp of the situation, i.e - a lack thereof. I'm not trying to attack you, but you have to realise that there were options. The simplest one to follow would be to acknowledge the principle foundation of the capitalistic system - bad companies die.

I don't know what you're talking about in your first paragraph, you seem to have gone on some rant about not being greedy etc. It's human nature, my friend. Human Action is called praxeology - we act because we WANT. And we want because we hope to be better in the future. I don't blame the taxi driver that took out a loan and couldn't pay it back. It was his risk and I feel no sympathy for him. Nor do I feel sympathy for the banks that never operated under Capitalistic principles when they knew Big Brother down on Kildare Street would happily bailout their corporate friends. Did I mention FG supported bailing out the wealthy corporatists?!?

Those banks should of fell and their assets bought up on the market for buttons. The problem is that we have a very dodgy banking system, not because there are a lack of regulations - but because a cartel exists. A cartel with a monopoly. There are a lot of things more sinister than you'd like to imagine at work here. It's not as clear cut as you'd like to suggest. Of course, we had choices. The choice being that private risk is NOT public debt. This is not a looney lefty/socialist view, this is also a capitalist view.

The manifesto this government, as well as the gombeens that preceded them are working from is your typical fascist playbook.

[Bullseye1]

Originally Posted by darkman2

. I was restrained, I didn't. The people who were restrained through the boom are the ones who really should be protected.

How exactly are you being protected? We have signed up to a bank guarantee that will be an anchor around our necks for generations. That does not sound like protection. The bravado shown by FG before they got into power was there for everyone to see. They lied.

[darkman2]

I agree 2 of the banks should have been let fail (Not all of them though for the simple reason we don't run our own central bank). However my fundamental point is that other countries like Finland that have had a crises as bad as this in the past learned from it, their population accepted and adapted their bahaviour generally away from their mistakes and they make bloody well sure it never ever happens again. It frightened them to correct their own ways as a society. Here, because so many seem to not accept the joint culpability of a good portion of our average population it looks to me like that lesson is not going to be learned. I am doubtful that we will ever regain economic sovereignty even when the crises is over but if we do we could end up in the same situation 20, 30, 40 years down the road again. Irish attitudes to finance generally have to change. There has to be discipline imposed from the top and solid barriers to excessive lending put in place. We may not see another boom but at least we will be solid and more protected.

[_Gawd_]

Originally Posted by darkman2

I agree 2 of the banks should have been let fail (Not all of them though for the simple reason we don't run our own central bank). However my fundamental point is that other countries like Finland that have had a crises as bad as this in the past learned from it, their population accepted and adapted their bahaviour generally away from their mistakes and they make bloody well sure it never ever happens again. It frightened them to correct their own ways as a society. Here, because so many seem to not accept the joint culpability of a good portion of our average population it looks to me like that lesson is not going to be learned. I am doubtful that we will ever regain economic sovereignty even when the crises is over but if we do we could end up in the same situation 20, 30, 40 years down the road again. Irish attitudes to finance generally have to change. There has to be discipline imposed from the top and solid barriers to excessive lending put in place. We may not see another boom but at least we will be solid and more protected.

Booms should not exist - they're not a part of capitalism just like a total widespread busts. These recessions, Tigers and depressions are a cause of the ECB counterfeiting money (quantitative easing). They flood the economy with fiat currency and then wonder why they're getting malinvestments. What we need is stable growth over a long period, real growth with plenty of saved capital. This cannot be the case now because the very people you're defending are introducing new taxes which will take more money out of the economy. You can't tax your way out of recession.

And I disagree, ALL banks should of failed - forget about central banks. Central banks are the enemy of the people. If you want a system of capitalism, you cannot have a central bank with the power to increase the money supply, period. And you'll never change the attitudes to finance because we're human..we make mistakes and it won't be the last time. The only thing you can do which I'm sure your friends are certainly not in favour of being the scumbags that they are is to insert a balance budget amendment into the Constitution so that these cretins never borrow beyond their means again and then have us foot the bill when the wolves are at the door.

Take it from me, Enda Kenny is NOT the answer to our problems. He never was and he never will be because the man is exactly the same as FF...a fascist.

[southsiderosie]

Originally Posted by tayto lover

Oh are your feathers getting ruffled just like Enda's hair ?

Originally Posted by mikom

The must have been big fans of thunderbirds in their youth.

Originally Posted by maddragon

Is that you Fionnuala.

MOD NOTE:

Folks, this kind of posting is better suited to the Politics Cafe or AH.

Off-topic posts deleted, although I would refer the "Thunderbirds" poster to the "Political lookalikes" thread in the Cafe.

Let's get back on track here, thanks.

[View]

Originally Posted by _Gawd_

Take it from me, Enda Kenny is NOT the answer to our problems. He never was and he never will be because the man is exactly the same as FF...a fascist.

Just because Enda K doesn't agree with your political opinions doesn't make him a facist.