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Zulu · 08-03-2012, 15:41

It's simple (though not necessarily easy) really, who do you love more - your sister or your nephew?

If you do nothing, do you think he'll thank you for it in 15 years time?
In 15 years time, when his life is a total mess, will you be proud you prevented a falling out between you and your sister?
Will it be worth it?

Look, you'll have to live with yourself; you'll have to watch the consequences as your nephew grew up.

So you can either act now, & have been the person who tried to stop it, or you can sit back and watch it happen. ...and frankly, doing the latter is simply being complicit in the neglect.

I hope for your nephews sake, and for your own sake, you find the strength to do the right thing.

clappyhappy · 08-03-2012, 15:45

Hi,what a horrible situation for both you and ur nephew. If I was in ur place I would contact a PHN and explain the whole thing and ask if she/he could send out an appointment for a development check up,this may seem routine and may not set of alarm bells,then its up to the PHN to see if there are issues. Maybe speaking to ur doctor he/she could help you arranging it. It would be a terrible shame if this was allowed to continue,it would effect the child for the rest of his life. It also sounds as though he is getting no exercise if he isn't allowed out. Poor kid,but that is what I would do, best of luck.

Friends · 08-03-2012, 16:15

thank you all for your replies. i have been holding this issue in for so long, and have been going almost mad myself with the worry about my nephew, and the possible fall-out for me if I say anything. The milestones, that someone mentioned only happen up to the 18 months period. Up to that point, he was hitting most milestones - he walks and talks and as i said, there is nothing 'obvious' to an outsider (other than he looks like a 2yr old) and he's not in a creche, so nothing has been spotted by neighbours.
dont start me on her use of FB to update her status about her 'wonderful son' - he is the most beautiful child and i am so sad about this issue.

to answer another question, i love my nephew more than my sister. My mother and her are as thick as two short planks - im sorry if that sounds harsh, speaking like that about my own family - but it's the truth. it drives me insane the way they behave. my sister has my mum told to mash up his food (sometimes, she still feeds him babyfood for convenience) so that's why she doesn't hand him a crust of bread in the mornings.
i have a child myself and i know how wrong this all is.
zulu, your post hit home the most, thanks. but thanks to all of you.

sometimes, when you hold things inside, you almost have yourself convinced that YOU are the one in the wrong and that they are all right (particularly when 'they' continuously try to convince you of it!). Im glad i wrote this post now.

This situation is going on in a beautiful home in a nice estate in northside dublin. my sister is well-liked and has a decent job and a decent enough salary (enough that she's not eligible for social welfare payments anyway), and NO-ONE would guess that this madness is taking place.
Thanks.

lisar816 · 08-03-2012, 16:27

maybe you could suggest the free pre school places and get him in there he is the right age and there might be places left im sure if there is something up they will figure it out?

that's if your afraid to report it

Ayla · 08-03-2012, 16:35

Liasar816: any preschool/montessori place won't accept the boy if he's not toilet trained (as far as I know), and even if they did, I wouldn't think that fair on the child...going from where he is now to a room full of kids who are lightyears beyond him as far as development goes...that wouldn't really help him psychologically. I know where you're coming from with this suggestion, but I wouldn't think it the best for the child in question.

Clappyhappy's suggestion of contacting the PHN & arranging for a health check isn't a bad thought...if, of course, the mother takes the child. But, if she doesn't (repeatedly misses appoints/etc) then I would think that should trigger an automatic report to the social worker. It's a way for the OP to get out of directly reporting the sister while getting the same result.

Friends · 08-03-2012, 16:45

I've just left a message for the phn in my sisters area.
thanks again.

**Big Bag of Chips** · 08-03-2012, 17:19

There is a developmental check at about 2.5 and at 4 also.

At the 9 month check the the nurse would have checked if your nephew could pick up building blocks. At the 2.5 year one, they check if they can build a tower of blocks. At the 4 year one they check if kids know their colours.

Can your nephew easily pick up toys? If not, (and I'm assuming he has the same difficulty as you mentioned about the biscuit) then that is a fine motor problem and he may need occupational therapy to help improve it.

I'll repeat, rather than social services, your first call should be to the public health nurse. She can asses the child and see if his development is below what it should be. She can refer him for OT, and she would also be better trained, and better positioned to call whether this is neglect or not. And she will then report it if she thinks it's necessary.

I'd step back from reporting her to social services for the moment. I probably sound harsh, but you are coming across a bit rough on your sister, and rather than finding ways to help... like calling the PHN, you are looking for ways to get her in trouble.. like reporting her to Social Services.

Only you can make the final decision, but personally I'd go the PHN route first. If after that it needs to go further, then its down to the PHN.

Friends · 08-03-2012, 22:02

While it does sound like the child in question is neglected. I would also suspect that the child has development delay as most 4 year olds would not be content to sit in a playpen watching TV. There may be a physical/mental reason why he can't pick up the food or do the normal things a 4 year old can do.

Now before anyone slates me, I should know because I have a 4 year old with global development delay which means delayed in all areas. My child has great difficulty with eating food and has a lot of sensory issues and physcial issues.

I think if you ring the PHN she can arrange to assess the child to make sure it is not more than an issue of neglect. Of course it also sounds like the mother is not helping matters.

I agree with Big Bag of Chips. The little child needs to be assessed and maybe even started on early intervention with OT, Physio maybe speech and langugage also.

Jerry Jordan · 09-03-2012, 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Bag of Chips

There is a developmental check at about 2.5 and at 4 also.

At the 9 month check the the nurse would have checked if your nephew could pick up building blocks. At the 2.5 year one, they check if they can build a tower of blocks. At the 4 year one they check if kids know their colours.

Can your nephew easily pick up toys? If not, (and I'm assuming he has the same difficulty as you mentioned about the biscuit) then that is a fine motor problem and he may need occupational therapy to help improve it.

I'll repeat, rather than social services, your first call should be to the public health nurse. She can asses the child and see if his development is below what it should be. She can refer him for OT, and she would also be better trained, and better positioned to call whether this is neglect or not. And she will then report it if she thinks it's necessary.

I'd step back from reporting her to social services for the moment. I probably sound harsh, but you are coming across a bit rough on your sister, and rather than finding ways to help... like calling the PHN, you are looking for ways to get her in trouble.. like reporting her to Social Services.

Only you can make the final decision, but personally I'd go the PHN route first. If after that it needs to go further, then its down to the PHN.

The mopther is an adult and knows right from wrong. OP you are not harsh to contact social services. You are dead right if you do. The fact the mother has let this happen and not had a health check herself for the child shows just how little she cares. OP i hope you all get the help you need

Friends · 09-03-2012, 09:53

Op again.

he does have developmental delay because (at my insistence) she had him assessed last year. he wasn't born with developmental delay however - I can't remember the exact wording of the diagnosis, but the main reason he is delayed is because of his 'environment'. But they came up with this assessment, suggested she send him to creche etc, and left her to it. Needless to say, after getting that letter, she still didn't send him to creche.

bigbagofchips, you are so wrong in saying that my only motive is to get my sister into trouble here. The reason I haven't reported her to anyone to date is exactly because I DONT want to get her into trouble. I do what I can for my nephew but she is reluctant to even let him come out with me and my child anymore.
Im waiting a call back from the phn.

Lola92 · 09-03-2012, 10:46

OP you have done the right thing to report the situation to the PHN but I would suggest that you get in touch with barnardos also. They can really help in a situation like this and you don't need a referral to contact them about their services, any family member can do it.

PHN's have a very heavy workload and you don't know how long it might take for them to come around and assess the situation. God love the kid stuck in front of a screen all day not being able to run around and play

I would try to encourage you to take the kid out and about with your own family if at all possible, maybe to the park on a Saturday? This way he would at least be getting some amount of proper interaction.

Jerry Jordan · 09-03-2012, 10:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lola92

OP you have done the right thing to report the situation to the PHN but I would suggest that you get in touch with barnardos also. They can really help in a situation like this and you don't need a referral to contact them about their services, any family member can do it.

PHN's have a very heavy workload and you don't know how long it might take for them to come around and assess the situation. God love the kid stuck in front of a screen all day not being able to run around and play

I would try to encourage you to take the kid out and about with your own family if at all possible, maybe to the park on a Saturday? This way he would at least be getting some amount of proper interaction.

OP its obvious you have no motive, bar love so pay no attention to such comments. Please contact social services. She doesnt deserve to have a child . and i dont care if she has mental issues or had a hard life etc. The child deserves proper care . Dont let this go on another weekend.

shot2go · 09-03-2012, 10:58

it sounds to me that there is more to this, if the child has difficulty picking up a biscuit. i have a SN child and the younger they get help the better.
i have a child off similar age that is in early intervention and a SN preschool, the difference it has made to his life and ours is amazing.

i would not report her to social services, i would however ask the public health nurse to visit her and tell her what your concerned about.

Friends · 09-03-2012, 11:17

I am not sure what you mean by 'it sounds to me that there is more to this,' shotogo?

the child has been assessed in temple street - there has been no diagnosis of a physical or mental disability - no ADD, no ADHD, no Autism, no Aspergers - he doesn't even come close to a borderline diagnosis on any of the above. he is on a waiting list for speech therapy as a result of this assessment - but that's it.

the reason he can barely hold a biscuit is because she spoon feeds him (sometimes in the playpen) and has never handed him a biscuit to chew on.

the only 'more to this' that there is, are further details on her wanting him to 'stay a baby' that i don't want to go into her for fear of identifying myself.

I rang barnardos already.

they were very helpful, but barnardos don't just knock on someones door 'on-spec' so to speak, so it would be obvious that they would have a report about her.
The phn on the other hand, could drop in and could use the pending speech therapy appointment as her excuse.

what i haven't said here already is that apart from the fall-out for me if she found out I reported her to anyone, is that she would not let me see the child ever again, and then what use would i be to him????
so i can't possibly go down the route of her figuring out that it was me who intervened.

Daffodil.d · 09-03-2012, 11:27

Op, you're not out to get anyone into trouble. You have come onto this forum and asked other parents advice because this is a stressful decision. If this situation goes as far as you having to contact social services (hopefully it won't), you can be confident that you didn't make the decision lightly and have explored several avenues first. Best of luck.

08-03-2012, 17:19	#22
Big Bag of Chips Moderator Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,543 Adverts \| Friends Mod: Personal Issues	There is a developmental check at about 2.5 and at 4 also. At the 9 month check the the nurse would have checked if your nephew could pick up building blocks. At the 2.5 year one, they check if they can build a tower of blocks. At the 4 year one they check if kids know their colours. Can your nephew easily pick up toys? If not, (and I'm assuming he has the same difficulty as you mentioned about the biscuit) then that is a fine motor problem and he may need occupational therapy to help improve it. I'll repeat, rather than social services, your first call should be to the public health nurse. She can asses the child and see if his development is below what it should be. She can refer him for OT, and she would also be better trained, and better positioned to call whether this is neglect or not. And she will then report it if she thinks it's necessary. I'd step back from reporting her to social services for the moment. I probably sound harsh, but you are coming across a bit rough on your sister, and rather than finding ways to help... like calling the PHN, you are looking for ways to get her in trouble.. like reporting her to Social Services. Only you can make the final decision, but personally I'd go the PHN route first. If after that it needs to go further, then its down to the PHN. Last edited by Big Bag of Chips; 08-03-2012 at 19:26.

08-03-2012, 22:02	#23
developmentdelay Guest Posts: n/a Adverts \| Friends	Could be more than neglect While it does sound like the child in question is neglected. I would also suspect that the child has development delay as most 4 year olds would not be content to sit in a playpen watching TV. There may be a physical/mental reason why he can't pick up the food or do the normal things a 4 year old can do. Now before anyone slates me, I should know because I have a 4 year old with global development delay which means delayed in all areas. My child has great difficulty with eating food and has a lot of sensory issues and physcial issues. I think if you ring the PHN she can arrange to assess the child to make sure it is not more than an issue of neglect. Of course it also sounds like the mother is not helping matters. I agree with Big Bag of Chips. The little child needs to be assessed and maybe even started on early intervention with OT, Physio maybe speech and langugage also.

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08-03-2012, 15:41	#16
Zulu Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Dublin. Posts: 8,449 Adverts \| Friends	It's simple (though not necessarily easy) really, who do you love more - your sister or your nephew? If you do nothing, do you think he'll thank you for it in 15 years time? In 15 years time, when his life is a total mess, will you be proud you prevented a falling out between you and your sister? Will it be worth it? Look, you'll have to live with yourself; you'll have to watch the consequences as your nephew grew up. So you can either act now, & have been the person who tried to stop it, or you can sit back and watch it happen. ...and frankly, doing the latter is simply being complicit in the neglect. I hope for your nephews sake, and for your own sake, you find the strength to do the right thing.

08-03-2012, 15:45	#17
clappyhappy Registered User Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: West Limerick Posts: 1,252 Adverts \| Friends	Hi,what a horrible situation for both you and ur nephew. If I was in ur place I would contact a PHN and explain the whole thing and ask if she/he could send out an appointment for a development check up,this may seem routine and may not set of alarm bells,then its up to the PHN to see if there are issues. Maybe speaking to ur doctor he/she could help you arranging it. It would be a terrible shame if this was allowed to continue,it would effect the child for the rest of his life. It also sounds as though he is getting no exercise if he isn't allowed out. Poor kid,but that is what I would do, best of luck.

08-03-2012, 16:15	#18
unregistered Guest Posts: n/a Adverts \| Friends	thank you all for your replies. i have been holding this issue in for so long, and have been going almost mad myself with the worry about my nephew, and the possible fall-out for me if I say anything. The milestones, that someone mentioned only happen up to the 18 months period. Up to that point, he was hitting most milestones - he walks and talks and as i said, there is nothing 'obvious' to an outsider (other than he looks like a 2yr old) and he's not in a creche, so nothing has been spotted by neighbours. dont start me on her use of FB to update her status about her 'wonderful son' - he is the most beautiful child and i am so sad about this issue. to answer another question, i love my nephew more than my sister. My mother and her are as thick as two short planks - im sorry if that sounds harsh, speaking like that about my own family - but it's the truth. it drives me insane the way they behave. my sister has my mum told to mash up his food (sometimes, she still feeds him babyfood for convenience) so that's why she doesn't hand him a crust of bread in the mornings. i have a child myself and i know how wrong this all is. zulu, your post hit home the most, thanks. but thanks to all of you. sometimes, when you hold things inside, you almost have yourself convinced that YOU are the one in the wrong and that they are all right (particularly when 'they' continuously try to convince you of it!). Im glad i wrote this post now. This situation is going on in a beautiful home in a nice estate in northside dublin. my sister is well-liked and has a decent job and a decent enough salary (enough that she's not eligible for social welfare payments anyway), and NO-ONE would guess that this madness is taking place. Thanks.

08-03-2012, 16:27	#19
lisar816 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 616 Adverts \| Friends	maybe you could suggest the free pre school places and get him in there he is the right age and there might be places left im sure if there is something up they will figure it out? that's if your afraid to report it

08-03-2012, 16:35	#20
Ayla Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Over the hill and far away... Posts: 1,487 Adverts \| Friends	Liasar816: any preschool/montessori place won't accept the boy if he's not toilet trained (as far as I know), and even if they did, I wouldn't think that fair on the child...going from where he is now to a room full of kids who are lightyears beyond him as far as development goes...that wouldn't really help him psychologically. I know where you're coming from with this suggestion, but I wouldn't think it the best for the child in question. Clappyhappy's suggestion of contacting the PHN & arranging for a health check isn't a bad thought...if, of course, the mother takes the child. But, if she doesn't (repeatedly misses appoints/etc) then I would think that should trigger an automatic report to the social worker. It's a way for the OP to get out of directly reporting the sister while getting the same result.

08-03-2012, 16:45	#21
unregistered Guest Posts: n/a Adverts \| Friends	I've just left a message for the phn in my sisters area. thanks again.

09-03-2012, 09:53	#25
unregistered Guest Posts: n/a Adverts \| Friends	Op again. he does have developmental delay because (at my insistence) she had him assessed last year. he wasn't born with developmental delay however - I can't remember the exact wording of the diagnosis, but the main reason he is delayed is because of his 'environment'. But they came up with this assessment, suggested she send him to creche etc, and left her to it. Needless to say, after getting that letter, she still didn't send him to creche. bigbagofchips, you are so wrong in saying that my only motive is to get my sister into trouble here. The reason I haven't reported her to anyone to date is exactly because I DONT want to get her into trouble. I do what I can for my nephew but she is reluctant to even let him come out with me and my child anymore. Im waiting a call back from the phn.

09-03-2012, 10:46	#26
Lola92 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Wexford Posts: 1,740 Adverts \| Friends	OP you have done the right thing to report the situation to the PHN but I would suggest that you get in touch with barnardos also. They can really help in a situation like this and you don't need a referral to contact them about their services, any family member can do it. PHN's have a very heavy workload and you don't know how long it might take for them to come around and assess the situation. God love the kid stuck in front of a screen all day not being able to run around and play I would try to encourage you to take the kid out and about with your own family if at all possible, maybe to the park on a Saturday? This way he would at least be getting some amount of proper interaction.

09-03-2012, 10:58	#28
shot2go Registered User Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 147 Adverts \| Friends	it sounds to me that there is more to this, if the child has difficulty picking up a biscuit. i have a SN child and the younger they get help the better. i have a child off similar age that is in early intervention and a SN preschool, the difference it has made to his life and ours is amazing. i would not report her to social services, i would however ask the public health nurse to visit her and tell her what your concerned about.

09-03-2012, 11:17	#29
unregistered Guest Posts: n/a Adverts \| Friends	I am not sure what you mean by 'it sounds to me that there is more to this,' shotogo? the child has been assessed in temple street - there has been no diagnosis of a physical or mental disability - no ADD, no ADHD, no Autism, no Aspergers - he doesn't even come close to a borderline diagnosis on any of the above. he is on a waiting list for speech therapy as a result of this assessment - but that's it. the reason he can barely hold a biscuit is because she spoon feeds him (sometimes in the playpen) and has never handed him a biscuit to chew on. the only 'more to this' that there is, are further details on her wanting him to 'stay a baby' that i don't want to go into her for fear of identifying myself. I rang barnardos already. they were very helpful, but barnardos don't just knock on someones door 'on-spec' so to speak, so it would be obvious that they would have a report about her. The phn on the other hand, could drop in and could use the pending speech therapy appointment as her excuse. what i haven't said here already is that apart from the fall-out for me if she found out I reported her to anyone, is that she would not let me see the child ever again, and then what use would i be to him???? so i can't possibly go down the route of her figuring out that it was me who intervened.

09-03-2012, 11:27	#30
Daffodil.d Registered User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Waterford Posts: 275 Adverts \| Friends	Op, you're not out to get anyone into trouble. You have come onto this forum and asked other parents advice because this is a stressful decision. If this situation goes as far as you having to contact social services (hopefully it won't), you can be confident that you didn't make the decision lightly and have explored several avenues first. Best of luck.