[KickstartHeart]

Originally Posted by TheBigLt

Oh I'm not too worried at all, my first time out, young and willing to try something great. I know what you're saying and I do agree with it mostly. It's a serious competition, more doctors qualify each year than cadets. It's dog eat dog. The only point I'm trying to make is, the army have in recent years picked more college graduates than school leavers, one reason is probably so they don't have to pay to put them through college. For me, I can't join the reserves because since I turned 17 none of the reserve units in my local or greater area have taken anyone in. It's quite frustrating to be honest. So now I'm in college doing my level 8 hopefully to graduate and by then be a reservist and go back and blow them out of the water. (Well hope they will be a little more impressed anyway)

Yeah they do look for those kinds of peope more, but not at the stage that you got to.

The run times are taken into account but have no effect on your performance. Its pass/fail. I presume they're taken account of so when it boils down to it at the end, if two people had a similar score in the competition over all, it might matter. But generally, it doesn't matter.

[KickstartHeart]

I must say giving someone a higher chance of getting a place as a leader in an operational military simply because they can speak a language that will never, ever, be used on operations, seams to me to be, illogical, unfair, and counter productive in picking the best candidates for a cadet class.


But I'm in no position to say that it IS unfair etc. There's more than likely decent logic behind it.

I suppose its important to take into account that anyone who makes it to the last 100 of a cadetship competition is definitely capable of completing a cadetship and becomming an army officer. So they're not exactly losing out on good blood by giving those who speak Irish an advantage. They're still getting the kind of candidate that they're looking for.

Interesting debate that is

[paky]

i think its discriminatory at the least.

[Tybalt]

If you were to do the Irish language interview and fail, do you fail the competition or do you continue if good enough and just not get the 6% on your final mark after the main interview?

[Tybalt]

Originally Posted by paky

i think its discriminatory at the least.

I wouldn't see it as discriminatory since it is the national and first language of the state, and is taught in schools from an early age. But I do see how there may not be a direct link from showing proficiency in speaking Irish to being a good officer and how it will probably be of little or no use on operations.
I'd see the bonus marks as being something for the candidates finishing up in school who lack PDF/RDF experience, maturity/life experience or a degree, and most of those candidates finishing school would have been doing Irish interviews anyway for their leaving certificate.
I'd like to try do the Irish interview if I was to make it that far in the competition as I am not finished college yet, but I am not near fluent.

[KickstartHeart]

Originally Posted by Tybalt

If you were to do the Irish language interview and fail, do you fail the competition or do you continue if good enough and just not get the 6% on your final mark after the main interview?

The interview is pass/fail, but if you pass, that doesn't mean you'l go through to medicals. They just take the top number (depends on how many places on offer) of the people that passed to go through to medicals.

That's why it annoys me when people say they did an interview, didn't get through to the next stage, and that they're p***ed off because they seam to take it that they Army says they're not good enough.
That's not the case. If they passed the interview they are good enough. But obviously the Army will only take the top highest scorers.

I passed an interview before but wasn't in the top number to be taken to medicals. I don't hold a grudge. If you go for it and they don't take you, don't hold one either, because its not because your'e not good enough, its because there were a few people that just managed to show that they had the tiniest bit more potential to become an army officer than yourself. Thats the way I see it anyway

So to answer your question, if you don't get past the interview, your'e out. So there's no way of carrying on to the next stage without being in the top scorers on the interview. So because you don't go through to the next stage, your bonus from doing the Irish interview doesn't carry on either (obviously because your'e out ). The bonuses they offer are for your interview score, not your over all competition score.

Hope that helps bud!

[Tybalt]

Originally Posted by KickstartHeart

The interview is pass/fail, but if you pass, that doesn't mean you'l go through to medicals. They just take the top number (depends on how many places on offer) of the people that passed to go through to medicals.

That's why it annoys me when people say they did an interview, didn't get through to the next stage, and that they're p***ed off because they seam to take it that they Army says they're not good enough.
That's not the case. If they passed the interview they are good enough. But obviously the Army will only take the top highest scorers.

I passed an interview before but wasn't in the top number to be taken to medicals. I don't hold a grudge. If you go for it and they don't take you, don't hold one either, because its not because your'e not good enough, its because there were a few people that just managed to show that they had the tiniest bit more potential to become an army officer than yourself. Thats the way I see it anyway

So to answer your question, if you don't get past the interview, your'e out. So there's no way of carrying on to the next stage without being in the top scorers on the interview. So because you don't go through to the next stage, your bonus from doing the Irish interview doesn't carry on either (obviously because your'e out ). The bonuses they offer are for your interview score, not your over all competition score.

Hope that helps bud!

Thanks, I was more wondering if not showing enough proficiency in Irish if you choose to do an Irish interview would eliminate you from progressing in the competition. I thought the Irish interview was an additional interview to the main one. eg. The main interview would be the same for all candidates, then anyone who wanted to try get the 6% bonus would do an extra interview in Irish, much like the Leaving Certificate oral exam for Irish.

[Turbine]

Originally Posted by KickstartHeart

I must say giving someone a higher chance of getting a place as a leader in an operational military simply because they can speak a language that will never, ever, be used on operations, seams to me to be, illogical, unfair, and counter productive in picking the best candidates for a cadet class.

How so when all commands are given as Gaeilge?

[KickstartHeart]

Originally Posted by Turbine

How so when all commands are given as Gaeilge?

The commands that are given in Irish are in drill only. Not actual important commands in operations or exercises. If a section commander is telling his troops where the final assault line is during an attack he doesn't say it in Irish, he says it in the language that his troops actually speak. (Unlikely that he/she will have a section of fluent Irish speakers)

If you notice, in most armies, the orders don't even sound like words of any language in drill. All soldiers can work with Irish drill and not know the language. If you ask a soldier, what does 'shocracht' mean, he'll probably say, 'I don't know it sounds like Arabic'. It actually means stand at ease, and is pronounced something along the lines of 'SHEEK RAWSH!' depending on your accent.

You don't actually need to be able to translate the orders to know what your'e being told to do.

In the British forces, even left, right, left, right, left right sounds more like 'HIFF HEIGHT HIFF HEIGHT HIFF HEIGHT!!'.

Trust me, being able to speak the language that the drill orders are given in won't make you in any way a better candidate than someone else. For two reasons. One, most people can't even speak Irish, and get on just fine on the drill square. Two, because the commands don't even sound like Irish (or any language actually), or in anyway how they're actually spelt or would be pronounced even if you were speaking Irish.

Have a look here; http://www.housemcfionn.com/files/CommandsShortList.pdf

Knowing the language that the drill commands are kind of losely based on when it boils down to how they're given, will most definitely not make you a better candidate than someone who has better leadership skills and experience.

EDIT: Firing range orders are given in Irish too, but these too are things you are taught. They are simple little phrases like 'Loadáil' and 'De-lodáil'. The kind of things a primary school student would understand. Knowing it before you go into the Army won't make you any better a potential leader.

[KickstartHeart]

Originally Posted by Tybalt

Thanks, I was more wondering if not showing enough proficiency in Irish if you choose to do an Irish interview would eliminate you from progressing in the competition. I thought the Irish interview was an additional interview to the main one. eg. The main interview would be the same for all candidates, then anyone who wanted to try get the 6% bonus would do an extra interview in Irish, much like the Leaving Certificate oral exam for Irish.

Nope, you do the normal interview or the Irish one. The Irish one isn't something you do as well as the other interview. Perhaps it should be, because the normal interview definitely probes more into your experience in the areas of competence that army officers should have. You should have to prove yourself as just as good a candidate as everyone else before getting your bonus for being able to speak a language that is poorly taught in schools and people from different areas grow up speaking and the rest of us don't. Its not discrimination, but its not actually very fair.

[Capt Blackadder]

Originally Posted by KickstartHeart

Nope, you do the normal interview or the Irish one. The Irish one isn't something you do as well as the other interview. Perhaps it should be, because the normal interview definitely probes more into your experience in the areas of competence that army officers should have. You should have to prove yourself as just as good a candidate as everyone else before getting your bonus for being able to speak a language that is poorly taught in schools and people from different areas grow up speaking and the rest of us don't. Its not discrimination, but its not actually very fair.

You do the normal interview, and if you chose to do so, you do an Irish language proficiency interview. All it does is assess your standard of Irish. Pass or fail. 6% extra or nothing. Simple as.

[KickstartHeart]

Originally Posted by Capt Blackadder

You do the normal interview, and if you chose to do so, you do an Irish language proficiency interview. All it does is assess your standard of Irish. Pass or fail. 6% extra or nothing. Simple as.

So do people who do the Irish interview have to do the normal one too?

[Tybalt]

Originally Posted by Capt Blackadder

You do the normal interview, and if you chose to do so, you do an Irish language proficiency interview. All it does is assess your standard of Irish. Pass or fail. 6% extra or nothing. Simple as.

Thanks, that's what I thought

[KickstartHeart]

I WAS WRONG!

"Candidates who wish to have their capability to communicate effectively in
both Irish and English taken into account may undergo a separate oral test in
the language in which the final interview is not conducted. In determining the
order of merit, a bonus of 6% of the total marks at the final interview will be
awarded to candidates who have shown themselves to be proficient in both
Irish and English."

That's from the cadetship booklet. I had spoken to people that did the normal interview and they told me that candidates who wanted to do the Irish one did an easier interview in Irish ONLY.

So all that I said about it in my previous posts was totally wrong. Apologies about that. I should have based my posts on decent info rather than peoples interpretations of what went on when they tried interviews.

Sorry about that lads!, and Capt Blackadder, thanks for pointing out that I was wrong because I could have put people way off track!

Sorry again!

[Capt Blackadder]

On the morning following your fitness test, when you're getting your final brief beofre you leave, you're asked what dates you definitely cannot do an interview on, and if you still want to do the Irish interview. They can't have 2 separate boards sitting(Irish and English speaking), insofar as there'd be less consistency of candidate selection between 2 boards than just the one.

On that note, this ain't gospel. It's just my own experience of the competition. For the gospel, no doubt, definitely the right information answer, get in contact with competitions section. They're friendly and helpful.